#60 Law with purpose – Erika Moralez Perez on redefining legal services

TRANSCRIPT: THE bizval PODCAST
Guest: Erika Morales-Perez, Founder
Host: Graham Stephen, CEO and Co-Founder, bizval

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[00:00:47] Graham Stephen: Welcome to another episode of the bizval, podcast. I’m, your host, Graham, Stephen, the co-founder, and CEO of bizval.

[00:01:00] Graham Stephen: Today we’ve got somebody truly special joining us, Erica Morales Perez. I think I got that right, and she’s the founder and CEO of the Iconos group. Erica’s had an incredible journey from corporate business management through to becoming a lawyer, entrepreneur, or, I should say, solicitor, barrister, depending where in the world you you’re sitting, and a purpose driven driven leader. So, Erica, welcome to the show.

[00:01:28] Erika Moralez-Perez: Thank you so much, Graham. It’s really good to be here.

[00:01:31] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. And and for our listeners you. You’re based in the Uk. And you can’t see it because you’ve got a background on. But I understand you’re sitting in sunny Spain at the moment.

[00:01:42] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yes, I am. I’m very lucky to be here, so the background’s hiding what would otherwise be very sunny indeed.

[00:01:49] Graham Stephen: I think you’d make everyone jealous if you had the real background. So. anyway, Erica, we’re just going to chat a bit about your your career your purpose and all of that. So I think, let’s let’s start a little bit with your story. I mean you. You’re now a lawyer, and I’m going to use the the colloquial term but before that you spent nearly a decade in corporate roles at some global tech giants, the likes of Microsoft Samsung, HP, before you, you went into law. How did that experience shape? You.

[00:02:23] Erika Moralez-Perez: I did, indeed, absolutely so. I came to law from a slightly different background. As you pointed out, it shaped me in a way that law could not have done. There were a couple of things. Firstly, I came to law as a much older trainee than your average fresh out of university. So that made a big difference, because I had a lot of life experience behind me by then. And then it actually taught me how businesses truly

[00:02:47] Erika Moralez-Perez: operate. So we can teach people commercial law at law school. We can’t teach people how commercial businesses operate. So in terms of

[00:02:57] Erika Moralez-Perez: the commercial pressures, facing businesses, how you deal with those internal politics, building relationships, with clients, with customers, with partners, with suppliers, and actually the thrust of the negotiation. And what we actually do in business looks completely different to how it looks in theory, from a legal perspective. So it really gave me a very rounded perspective. By the time I came to qualify as a lawyer.

[00:03:26] Graham Stephen: And that’s that’s a really interesting backstory to say. You know, I was reading something the other day, and you know about it’s called it straight out of university graduates, having all the theory, but no practice. And one of the questions one of my good friends, Garth always says, is to ask, somebody is like, What have you built.

[00:03:46] Graham Stephen: or what have you done? And I think that’s so important is to have that practical experience. I think you? In the Uk. I’m sitting in South Africa. We do a lot of work in the Us. And

[00:03:56] Graham Stephen: I think there’s a tendency in some countries that you have to specialize and focus as soon as you come out of school. Pick your career path, and that’s 1 of the differences, I guess, in the Us is, you don’t necessarily specialize straight away. You do a social sciences degree, but a working experience. And then you go to law school or med school or specialize in that. So you know, I think there’s definitely some merit and and insight, and actually doing something first.st But I guess that’s not the way the world’s wired.

[00:04:25] Graham Stephen: You then made the decision. Okay, so you’ve got a successful career. You know, probably on CEO track and along those lines, or coo track. What

[00:04:37] Graham Stephen: made you make the bold move sort of mid-career to shift in to law? What drove that decision.

[00:04:44] Erika Moralez-Perez: Well, it sounds a little bit silly when I say it out loud now, because I always wanted to be a lawyer. That was a childhood dream, and I’ve kind of fallen into it and ended up in these blue chip organizations, loved what I was doing because I love dealing with the people.

[00:04:59] Erika Moralez-Perez: It was really exciting to be closing the deal, so I always have a salesperson at heart, and I love the cut and thrust of being there in the midst of it. But I still had. I was left wanting, you know. Even all of the really great paid jobs in it weren’t enough to keep me interested. I’ve always been an individual that likes to learn, and I like to continually be pushing and stretching myself

[00:05:22] Erika Moralez-Perez: so I thought, Well, hey, I’ll just do my law degree part time in the evenings. So I did that which I completed in my Microsoft days. Actually, so it was a very tough

[00:05:32] Erika Moralez-Perez: final year. That’s for sure. I did something silly, like 12 international trips in 11 months. And that was during my final year at Uni as well, which I just did in the evenings. So and back then I had to go into London 3 nights a week as well. So I had to actually go to lectures because there were no online lectures back in those days. So it was, I’ve just made myself sound ancient. But so it’s 3 days a week as well. So in between all the international travel and dealing with the partners that I was dealing with

[00:06:02] Erika Moralez-Perez: as part of my day job, I was going into London for 3 h, 3 nights a week, so it was. It was pretty tough, but I’m glad I did it again. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Right? So it did shape me. And it helped me to learn to focus my efforts where I needed to. So I definitely got a lot out of it. If I had my time again I’d go to university and do it when I was younger, when my parents were paying for it.

[00:06:30] Graham Stephen: Yeah, you know, I mean, it’s it’s it’s interesting. My wife’s also had a career change. She was a chartered accountant, and now she’s a. She’s a psychologist, you know, and.

[00:06:39] Erika Moralez-Perez: Oh, wow!

[00:06:40] Graham Stephen: I appreciate how tough that is. You know. I don’t know whether you had kids at the time and that but you know, trying to hold on a job, be a mom, be a wife and change career paths. I mean, what were some of the challenges you had to? You had to go through. I mean, you spoke a bit about juggling your timetable but emotionally. That must have been quite tough as well.

[00:07:01] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, really tough, because, of course, you have all the deadlines of your day job and your daily routine and life, and keeping all those plates spinning, as you quite rightly point out that your wife has had to do as well. But you also have other deadlines, and you have exams, and you have papers that you have to get in, and then you’re for me like I said I was traveling internationally at the time with my job. I have massive targets.

[00:07:26] Erika Moralez-Perez: so you know, multi 1 million pound targets every year to hit in my job as well. And of course my job paid for my studies.

[00:07:33] Erika Moralez-Perez: but emotionally, it was really tough. It was tough. I’m not going to lie. There was a lot of pressure. It was probably 20 h of additional study a week on top of my day job on top of the 9 HA week I was having to physically be present in London at lectures. So you know, you’re working a 40 h week just in your day job. And then you’re adding another 29 h of other stuff. So you learn to be very focused. You learn to be very productive in the time that you’ve got, and you sleep little.

[00:08:05] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I guess the added benefit is, when you have a client or somebody telling you they don’t have time, or they can’t fit it in, or whatever talking about that life experience, I mean, you can kind of turn around and say, Hey, I’ve done it. This is how you do it, you know. So it goes beyond just knowing the law. It’s like, you know, and nobody likes that in the business world, right? I mean, whether it’s compliance or legal stuff or reading contracts. Most business people are like.

[00:08:29] Graham Stephen: Hey, we can do that later. But you you’ve got the scars to prove that, you know not just the law can be done, but actually the juggling and the prioritization and the focus to to focus on the important things, I guess, is is pretty important.

[00:08:42] Erika Moralez-Perez: Absolutely. I’m definitely I’m I’m a person who can squeeze a lot into a day.

[00:08:49] Graham Stephen: I guess the question you’re sitting in Spain now is, you know. Can you put the work and the and the tapas and the afternoon cocktails, and all of that.

[00:08:58] Erika Moralez-Perez: Always. Oh, okay. there’s always time for an afternoon cocktail. But actually, it’s I mean, we laugh and joke. But it is again, that kind of experience and that shaping of being able to prioritize. I’ve learned to really hone in on what needs to be done and what needs to be done now, and also that filters down into managing expectations of our suppliers and our clients as well. So you know I’ve

[00:09:23] Erika Moralez-Perez: I like to under forecast over deliver always. That’s kind of always been my motto. So it’s it’s definitely shaped how I do things. And again, from a productivity perspective, it works much more effectively. So it’s it’s good.

[00:09:42] Graham Stephen: Absolutely. So. So you spoke a bit about okay. So you’ve shifted into Lord is always a childhood dream you kind of became, say, disillusioned, but it wasn’t enough working in corporate it. So you’ve gone back to study.

[00:09:56] Graham Stephen: Now. what next? Okay, so you kind of re, you’ve studied law, and you reimagine how you can do things differently. So maybe if you can just share with our listeners a little bit about this sort of iconic story, what kind of made you reimagine the legal model? And how is that different to sort of the traditional approach to legal services.

[00:10:22] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So when I was working in it, one of the things that we found most challenging as salespeople and business management individuals was the fact that there was a really big divide between the sales team and the legal teams, and quite often we would joke, and we would call the legal team sales prevention.

[00:10:46] Erika Moralez-Perez: and you know, tongue in cheek, because we all got on very well. But of course they were so particularly in blue chip organizations. There’s lots of other factors. So there might be antitrust competition law, we call it in the Uk. So there are lots of other factors that play a part. But ultimately I saw a gap in the market where there was we could bridge this disconnect and this gap between sales, teams, and legal teams.

[00:11:10] Erika Moralez-Perez: So I wanted to. And it’s still my mission. It’s 1 of the core values that underpins iconos. And really, how iconos was born

[00:11:19] Erika Moralez-Perez: was to change the view of lawyers, one client at a time, and that’s because we don’t want to be seen as sales prevention. There is a world, I believe, where lawyers and salespeople can get on. But actually, we have to take away some of this stigma that is attached to lawyers and legal advice that

[00:11:40] Erika Moralez-Perez: that suggests that we want to prevent sales. That’s not the case at all. We want to make sales happen. We want to make them happen more quickly, more efficiently with more margin and more profit. But the way to do that is to making sure we’ve got really slick legal foundations and systems and processes to enable the sales teams and to empower them to just go out and sell.

[00:12:04] Erika Moralez-Perez: And that’s really how Iconos was born. I saw this gap in the market. I thought we can do it differently. I still get the cut and thrust and the enjoyment of doing the deal. But I’m working with sales people to deliver it.

[00:12:18] Graham Stephen: That’s fantastic. So basically, I mean you, you less reactive and more proactive. Essentially.

[00:12:24] Erika Moralez-Perez: Absolutely. And what we, what we specialize in and how we differ to the average law firm is that we deliver what we call a managed legal service. So you know, some people might. You might call it a subscription, but we have clients that use us. We are essentially outsourced

[00:12:41] Erika Moralez-Perez: council, but we act as their in-house legal team, and we just come in and we look at what they’re doing and we improve their processes. We rewrite their documents if needed, and we make it easier for them to do deals. So what we end up with is sales. People that feel happy and confident to talk about contracts on the day they start talking to their customers about deals, not on the day before they’re about

[00:13:05] Erika Moralez-Perez: to close the deal. So then, all of that time that would otherwise delay them. Closing their deal no longer happens, because they’ve already had the conversation.

[00:13:15] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s super that philosophy. And I think when we 1st connected a few months ago, Erica, I mean, that’s kind of what what brought us together is that, you know at bizval we’ve got a very similar approach, you know. You know the big 4 audit firms, and that when it comes to things like valuations, it’s invariably compliance driven. We’re doing this because we have to. It’s the same as taxes and accounting, and all those things, whereas we wanted to flip that model on the head and say, we’re standing in the corner of the business owner or the entrepreneur.

[00:13:43] Graham Stephen: and we want to empower them and enable them to make better decisions and build better businesses. And you’ve taken that exact same philosophy and said, Yeah, let’s put it at the front of the process. Let’s not make law this big, scary thing. Let’s talk to people in a language that they understand pre-show. We were joking around a bit in Latin.

[00:14:04] Erika Moralez-Perez: Absolutely.

[00:14:05] Graham Stephen: Gets like gets excited, and they put their wig on. Yes.

[00:14:13] Erika Moralez-Perez: They wouldn’t be scared off by Latin. I feel the same.

[00:14:18] Graham Stephen: So we’re going to get back to a little bit about Econos just now. But you know, so you didn’t just

[00:14:25] Graham Stephen: qualify as law, and then go and kind of work in a big law firm. Okay, that kind of would have defeated the object you kind of made the leap into entrepreneurship. You started your own business. What’s made you take that leap? I mean. So I mean, that must also been quite scary. You know, having this safety and the security of a regular income, and that now you’re going out there and starting your own thing. What? What drove that.

[00:14:51] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, so it was really scary, actually. And I had a bit of a push. So I qualified into regional private practice. And that was an amazing experience for me, because, being a regional law firm, they were very appreciative and cognizant of my previous experience, and I was a much older, newly qualified solicitor.

[00:15:12] Erika Moralez-Perez: and they exposed me to some amazing stuff as well. So I got to be part of building their business plan, which, of course, was all of my previous experience, but I also had a better understanding because of their exposure. To me, of this, of how to run a law firm, and some of the key considerations. So that piece that was missing in my experience. Suddenly that gap was filled and I was getting the legal experience as well, so I spent 5 years with them, and then I went out on my own

[00:15:41] Erika Moralez-Perez: and it was I started off as a consultant, so I had a bit of backing in in that sort of arena. But then I still again I had that feeling of being left wanting. Still, Graham, you know that that perpetual feeling of pushing myself.

[00:15:57] Erika Moralez-Perez: It’s still I was still having to operate within the parameters of somebody else’s vision which just wasn’t enabling me to deliver what I wanted to for my clients. So it was scary. But I took the leap. And you know, once you step off the ledge you’re you’re in it. You know how it is.

[00:16:16] Erika Moralez-Perez: So I just day by day, piece by piece, I just kind of went for it, and I was fortunate because I had some clients that I bought with me, anyway. So I had the safety net of still working with people that I knew, and I still knew that I could deliver the great service, and then, organically, piece by piece, we’ve just grown from there.

[00:16:36] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s fascinating. Taking those leaps of faith, so to speak. You know. And it’s amazing. It happens at different stage of life. I’ve shared my story a number of times. How? How my dad at 42 became an entrepreneur, I guess, or self-employed, not out of choice, but out of necessity.

[00:16:51] Graham Stephen: And I you know he was the worst example of entrepreneur. He just wanted to help people for free, and you know, just a nice guy. He’s still climbing ladders at 75. So just survivalist entrepreneur. One man band the reality that put me off entrepreneurship initially, and I saw I’d never do it.

[00:17:12] Graham Stephen: Ironically. I was 42, and I left the sort of formal employ of other people and ventured out to my own thing and a bit like you. It was kind of consultant, fractional strategy, Cfo. And then, a couple of years later, obviously started bizval. So it’s remarkable how similar those stories, or your your story is to mine. And yeah, how does sort of life changes happen, you know. I think

[00:17:38] Graham Stephen: nowadays. So the impression of entrepreneurs you got to be a 25 year old something Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard graduate, and, you know, go build an AI business. The the.

[00:17:48] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:48] Graham Stephen: Different, you know, entrepreneurs who’ve got life experience and start businesses in their 40. It’s been proven and studied often a lot more successful simply because they’ve got that life experience and they know the real problems. I mean, what? What’s your experience been? Have you found it easier? I guess, being. I hate using this word. An older entrepreneur.

[00:18:11] Graham Stephen: Where have you found it? Harder.

[00:18:12] Erika Moralez-Perez: Well, I still consider myself in my head. I’m still a spring chicken, as I’m sure you feel the same. The same goes for all of us, doesn’t it? But I do think I’m sure you tell your kids the same as I tell mine. The AI entrepreneurs that step out of university and make millions are one. You’ve probably got as much chance as winning the lottery.

[00:18:35] Erika Moralez-Perez: So let’s face it. It’s not that easy, and if it were that easy we’d all be doing it. I think one of the things for me is that we always laugh in my house because I’ve always said I’ve been driven by the fear as a salesperson. You want to hit your targets because you want to earn that commission, and I’ve always been driven by the fear of not earning enough money to pay my part of the bills in my household, so I still have that bit of fear.

[00:19:00] Erika Moralez-Perez: and I think that in a way that’s a good thing, because that continues to drive me forward every day.

[00:19:08] Erika Moralez-Perez: I agree with you. I think that life experience is invaluable. I remember my mother telling me many years ago. You know, darling, nothing can replace wisdom, nothing can replace experience. And I remember being a whippersnapper, and it really annoying me because I thought but hang on a second. I’ve got this amazing education. It’s not just experience. And actually, now I look back and you cannot replace experience. It doesn’t matter

[00:19:32] Erika Moralez-Perez: how good your education doesn’t matter how much you’ve paid for it. Life, experience, business experience is priceless.

[00:19:40] Erika Moralez-Perez: and that really does shape you, and I think that that’s where you and I. We like. You say we come from very similar journeys, backgrounds. And for us we’ve seen this gap because of what we’ve been through ourselves because of the pain that we’ve been through in our respective careers. We’ve gone well, hang on a second. This could be done better. This could be done differently. I’m going to go for it. I’m going to try it and see what happens. And then again, as I say organically, things build from that moment of inspiration.

[00:20:10] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, I’m gonna say a little bit because and this is on this. This isn’t on the script. But as we’re chatting. You know you spoke about having a sales background. And one of the challenges I guess I’ve had. You know I’m trained as an account. I’ve been in commercial. 1. 1 of the things I’ve experienced is like. Often sales has got this sort of like almost dirty connotations attached. It’s the sales team

[00:20:33] Graham Stephen: And the one thing I’ve learned in the last sort of 5 years is that I never considered myself a salesperson. But the reality is is sales is the lifeblood of, you know every single

[00:20:44] Graham Stephen: business. How’s that background in sales? And you become a salesperson, whether whether you want to or not? Okay.

[00:20:53] Graham Stephen: how’s that background in sales helped you as you’ve launched iconos? In terms of whether it’s getting clients, whether it’s engaging clients, all those things. What? What are some of the, you know. I guess, the sort of

[00:21:07] Graham Stephen: subconscious things that you do, that other entrepreneurs might not even think about.

[00:21:12] Erika Moralez-Perez: Well, it’s helped me. I think, that you saying that sales is the lifeblood of every business. I couldn’t agree more. It’s the lifeblood of everything. I remember to get some flying time when I 1st qualified, I went working for banks, repossessing houses which sounds awful. But actually we were called court advocates at the time, so we would literally pitch up to court.

[00:21:35] Erika Moralez-Perez: We’d be there to repossess houses where people weren’t paying their mortgages. But but actually I did it for 15 months. I was doing 6 or 7 a day, and I only actually ever got a repossession order on one property, and that wasn’t because I was incompetent.

[00:21:50] Graham Stephen: Despite the appearances that there is a really shady, shocky lawyer under there somewhere.

[00:21:56] Erika Moralez-Perez: Well, there’s either there’s that view, or you could say, maybe I just wasn’t very confident at doing what I was doing. But actually the banks. The banks took a really pragmatic approach, and their view was we would rather get paid than get the property. So you had quite a lot of jurisdiction

[00:22:13] Erika Moralez-Perez: to make a deal with the individuals who you were taking to court. But I digress slightly. The reason I’m telling you this story is because I remember sitting in front of a judge in one of the county courts. They were county court judges, and she said to me, You know you’ve got this background of sales. Why are you even here? And because we went frequently to the same courts, you’d build a rapport with the judges. So she was like, what are you doing here? And I said to her, well, the thing is, I’m

[00:22:37] Erika Moralez-Perez: selling you a story right? I’m selling you a case. I’m giving you the background so that you give me what I need and what I want. And she was like, oh, I never really thought about it like that. So even in court, we’re selling.

[00:22:51] Erika Moralez-Perez: So it’s I think it’s helped me massively in my business, because I know how to negotiate, and for my clients it gives me. It gives me that that real advanced experience of being at the forefront of cutting deals. And when you’re negotiating a contract, it means that you can be really commercial. And you can say, Okay, well, I understand that that doesn’t work for you. But what about if we did it like this?

[00:23:13] Erika Moralez-Perez: Would that work, and then it’s safe for both. So it really gives you an edge on how you, how you negotiate. So that’s with clients and with suppliers. It’s the same. If I want to get something I’m not afraid to ask

[00:23:27] Erika Moralez-Perez: again. It has to work for everybody, but I think if we can consider ourselves as salespeople. It really gives us a big advantage because we all have to sell. We have to go out and find clients we sell to our kids, I would say with my kids, I’m probably the least effective in my sales role compared to all of my other roles in business. Because they offer

[00:23:52] Erika Moralez-Perez: why, what I’m selling but yeah, it it does give you an edge.

[00:23:58] Graham Stephen: Yeah. And it also helps build confidence. You know. I mean again, I’m giving away my age now. It reminds me of you know, before I met my wife early days of dating as a scrawny, skinny spectacle, wearing Afro bearing, you know, teenage boy having to go up to a girl and actually speak to her, you know. But nowadays our kids just connect on Snap or Whatsapp, what have you? But yeah, I think those things shape you. They form you. You kind of learn to kind of just

[00:24:22] Graham Stephen: not be afraid of failure. And you know, I think that that’s actually what it’s about and sales, teaches you that.

[00:24:31] Erika Moralez-Perez: Definitely feel the fear and do it anyway, right?

[00:24:34] Graham Stephen: Exactly so. Let me shift gears a little bit. We’ve spoken about offline about this, but I know one of the things that really drives you is perfect purpose over profit. And I know you know you are very much a purpose. Driven leader, businesswoman, mom, you know, person, what? What does it really mean to you when you say purpose over profit.

[00:25:01] Erika Moralez-Perez: So I think for me it means giving real value and understanding the people around you. I consider myself really fortunate for my clients. Yes, we have to make money for sure and like you, and like you say, we’ve all been through that period of, you know, giving away too much and not making enough money, because actually in our hearts we want to do the right thing by people.

[00:25:25] Erika Moralez-Perez: For us. It is about doing the right thing, and it’s about doing the right thing for our clients. It’s about looking after the people that work with me and for me, and it’s about giving back as well. I believe that we can give back to

[00:25:40] Erika Moralez-Perez: other things in life whether that’s doing a bit of litter picking with the kids, or, as you know I’m a trustee. So I sit on the board of trustees for a palliative care. Charity that’s actually local to me. But we’re now in the top 20 of palliative care charities in the Uk. And I support them, and I love that because it’s such important work.

[00:26:07] Erika Moralez-Perez: and they couldn’t operate without their volunteers. You know, we’ve got 12 or 13 of us as members of the Board. We all have different experiences like in life. We’re all experienced in our respective fields, and without us they would find it very difficult to operate. So

[00:26:27] Erika Moralez-Perez: for me, having a purpose and being driven, not just by the money, but actually by

[00:26:35] Erika Moralez-Perez: doing the right thing is really important, and that for me filters through my personal life through my business. Everybody in my team knows that about me, and are actually very similar, and then beyond, in where we can give back in other ways. And I encourage that in every area of my life.

[00:26:55] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s that’s both rare and and inspiring, you know. And I think I think a lot of people

[00:27:01] Graham Stephen: you know you think about giving back once they’ve made it. It’s a little bit like this notion of retirement, I mean, if you think about our parents generation, perhaps it was like, you know, you work for the same company for 40 years, and then you’ve got the retired money, and then you enjoy life or give back, or whatever. And I think this notion of

[00:27:19] Graham Stephen: you know, actually, it’s not. It’s not do it when it’s like, do it while so how do you. How do you think about that? I mean, you’ve shared a little bit about that. But I mean, how would you encourage other people to, you know, move beyond the money. What advice would you have to other aspiring entrepreneurs who kind of worrying about making payroll at the end of the month list, you know, being on the board of a Hospice.

[00:27:44] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, absolutely. So. I think it’s a number of things I would say, just do it.

[00:27:51] Erika Moralez-Perez: Just go for it, like I say, fill the fear and do it. Anyway, it doesn’t have to be a big job. It doesn’t. You can do something. And I like this notion of

[00:28:03] Erika Moralez-Perez: all, or something rather than all or nothing. One of the things, Graham that drives me is that I know lots of people, I think, as humans, we’re conditioned. Aren’t we to like you say? Do it when we retired? I’ll do it one day, but my view is, why shouldn’t that one day be now? I’ve seen it too many times where people have waited, and then they get there, and

[00:28:25] Erika Moralez-Perez: a tragedy happens, and and they never get to fulfill those things. And you know my both my husband and I share the view that we should just go for it, and that’s what I would say to any entrepreneur. If if you feel you want to do something for you to give back in terms of you might not have the time. I don’t really have the time if I’m brutally honest, but I do it because I love it, and it feeds my soul.

[00:28:50] Erika Moralez-Perez: And I think in feeding my soul it gives me that bit more purpose still to do my job. So my day job at Iconos and

[00:29:00] Erika Moralez-Perez: everything makes a chain reaction happen. So my advice is.

[00:29:06] Erika Moralez-Perez: do it go for it all or something. It doesn’t have to be a big job. But just take one small step and put one foot in front of the other.

[00:29:14] Graham Stephen: You should. You should have been a marketing director for for Nike. Just just do it.

[00:29:19] Erika Moralez-Perez: I should have done. Maybe I was.

[00:29:24] Graham Stephen: You never know. Maybe you came up with the slogan, and you just didn’t tell anyone.

[00:29:29] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah.

[00:29:31] Graham Stephen: So I want to kind of before we get into a fun rapid fire section, I think. Let’s let’s kind of like consolidate. You know some of the lessons you’ve had along the way. So, Erica, maybe if you can just start with some of the sort of biggest learnings you’ve had on this journey, you know, from from corporate. It sales through to law, through to mom, you know, through to

[00:29:56] Graham Stephen: yeah, just as a as a as a person who loves to contribute and give back to society. What? What are your sort of top tips to any business owners.

[00:30:07] Graham Stephen: listeners, advisors, anyone who’s listening into that.

[00:30:10] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah, so thank you. So gosh, I think I’d probably be here for a week if I were to try and tell you everything that I would say to younger entrepreneurs or other entrepreneurs, but I would definitely say, you’ll never be ready, so don’t wait till you’re ready. Just definitely do it, I would say all or something. Take small steps, you know, even today, when I go out running which I love.

[00:30:38] Erika Moralez-Perez: I just think one step in front of the other, so don’t wait to be ready. Small steps.

[00:30:44] Erika Moralez-Perez: Stay really true to yourself and your core belief of what the service that you’re delivering or the business that you’re building, you know. Lots of people along the way will say, Oh, why aren’t you doing this? Have you considered that

[00:30:57] Erika Moralez-Perez: advice is fantastic. but always remain true to your core belief, your core value, and where you started, where you came from and surround yourself with with amazing people. You know if you’re the most intelligent person in the room. You’re in the wrong room, but build up your people to go beyond where you are and let them fly because they’ll challenge you. They’ll hold you accountable, and it will be the best thing you ever do for you and your business.

[00:31:25] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, it’s a bit like being a parent, I mean, my son is turning 17, and my daughter’s turning 14. And and I feel like they’re getting to that stage now where you’ve prepared them for life. And now they’re getting ready to spread their wings and and let them go, and it’s hard whether it’s as a parent or whether it’s

[00:31:45] Graham Stephen: you know, as a business leader, one entrepreneur I’m going to ask one last hard question, and then we’ll have a few rapid fire questions. But

[00:31:54] Graham Stephen: any real sort of tough challenges along the way. What? What have been the things that have been really hard for you. Or any mistakes that you’ve made in the in the last sort of few years.

[00:32:05] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah. So something that I think we probably all have suffered from at 1 point or another, hiring the wrong people. So putting the wrong people in the wrong jobs which causes a big impact to the team generally. So it’s not just about the role that they’re hired to fulfill and maybe not fulfilling. But actually, it’s the overarching shockwaves that that sends through the team that makes things very difficult.

[00:32:30] Erika Moralez-Perez: And actually, the I think the other biggest challenge I’ve had is

[00:32:37] Erika Moralez-Perez: being swayed by others views. And that’s not that I’m unhappy to be challenged by my team, far from it, but actually.

[00:32:47] Erika Moralez-Perez: like I said in the last question, you, it’s very easy for people to say you should be doing this. You should be doing that. And actually, you know, over the years we’ve gone full circle and come back to exactly where we started, which was exactly the gap that I knew was in the market.

[00:33:02] Erika Moralez-Perez: and that that’s our target and always has been. So that’s been a challenge. Because staying on course, when lots of other people are telling you, you should be doing different things is very difficult, both to keep them motivated, and to stay on your course of action.

[00:33:18] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I love that. I mean, I’ve made that same mistake many times is, you know, I call it learning to trust my gut. You know, I think when you, when you grow up in a corporate world, you kind of like, have to prove everything and show everything and back it up with evidence and all of that sort of thing as an entrepreneur.

[00:33:32] Graham Stephen: actually. And and we’ve made that mistake countless times, even with bizval, you know, in terms of people will tell you how to reach your markets and how to do this and how to do that. And you think, Okay, well, I’ll spend the money and have somebody do it for me. And then you realize actually, you know what they don’t know, what you know. They don’t have your experience. So I love that, Erica, we’re gonna we’re gonna end up with a few sort of like rapid fire fun questions.

[00:33:57] Erika Moralez-Perez: Okay.

[00:33:58] Graham Stephen: So the 1st one to you. One book that any founder should should read.

[00:34:04] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yes, my favorite book, I am a badass, and I can’t remember who actually the author is, but it’s brilliant. If you put it into your browser, you will find it in a nanosecond. Read it.

[00:34:18] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:34:19] Erika Moralez-Perez: Fantastic. I’m a badass.

[00:34:24] Graham Stephen: Definitely check that out. Okay, I mean, now, this might be a really tough question. I mean, you’ve got you’ve got English blood. And clearly there’s also some sadda with a Spanish or South American blood. So coffee or tea.

[00:34:39] Erika Moralez-Perez: Well, I like both, actually, but definitely, coffee every morning without fail. 1st thing I do.

[00:34:46] Graham Stephen: Okay, what’s your go to productivity hack.

[00:34:49] Erika Moralez-Perez: Prioritize. That’s.

[00:34:53] Graham Stephen: Do it.

[00:34:55] Erika Moralez-Perez: Do one thing and do it absolutely.

[00:34:58] Graham Stephen: Okay? 3 more questions. What? What is a legal mistake that, you see. founders or business people make all the time the most common thing that pops up for for entrepreneurs.

[00:35:09] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah. So no shareholders agreement. They fall out, and then they’re stuck. They own the business. 50, 50, and they’re stuck in this business together. They hate each other.

[00:35:19] Graham Stephen: I mean, that’s interesting we talk about. I often have a question. I’d love your view on it. Sorry I’m going on a segway, but I often have solo founders say to me, I don’t need a shareholders agreement, because I’m the only person I’ve got a view on that. I’d love to just hear your view on that, for our listeners.

[00:35:34] Erika Moralez-Perez: Yeah. Well, it’s all well and good while you’re on your own. But you want to bring anyone else in. Then you’re going to struggle. So set the legal foundations that starts with the shareholders. Agreement start as you mean to go on always.

[00:35:47] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I give that time. Not that I’m a legal person, but my sort of ethos is like, even if it’s not a shareholders. Agreement. You maybe don’t call it that, but but write down almost your governing principles, and how you make decisions, and that. And then, if you do bring on a partner. At least you’ve done the heavy lifting, and you know where you stand. Before you bring on a partner.

[00:36:05] Erika Moralez-Perez: Definitely. It also helps shape your view of the business from day one which is really where you, where you want to be.

[00:36:13] Graham Stephen: Absolutely one thing you wish more lawyers would understand about business.

[00:36:19] Erika Moralez-Perez: I wish more lawyers would understand that they need to talk to people and not try and do everything by email or in documents.

[00:36:29] Graham Stephen: I love that. And then the last question is, what’s your favorite part of running iconos?

[00:36:36] Erika Moralez-Perez: The freedom definitely to do what I want. as in in the service that we deliver, and having that agility to shape our service to our clients, needs.

[00:36:50] Graham Stephen: Absolutely love that Erica, I mean, I just want to thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, I think your story. You know, it’s just. It’s inspirational. I think it’s a masterclass in how to make bold choices in life and and transitions. And you know, with purpose at its center. Where can people find you? I guess you’ve got your backdrop there, but maybe just share what’s the easiest way other than on a beach in the south of Spain for the next.

[00:37:17] Erika Moralez-Perez: Excellent.

[00:37:18] Graham Stephen: Where can people find you if they want to reach out to you if they want to do business with you? If they’re looking for a proper, commercially focused legal partner in their corner. What’s the best way to get hold of you?

[00:37:31] Erika Moralez-Perez: Thank you, Graham. Yes, you can connect with me on Linkedin. Obviously, my email is showing here. So you can catch me always on email or iconos hyphen group.com, or on Linkedin. We have iconos group on Linkedin or Slash Erica Morales Perez. You’ll find me there as well. So I’m always happy to talk to people. It’s my favorite thing to do.

[00:37:51] Graham Stephen: Fantastic, and to everyone who’s listened in today. Thank you so much for joining us. I really hope you found some inspiration and took something out of today’s episode. If you did please share it with a colleague, a friend, subscribe on our channel and follow us@bizvellglobal.com for more insight led conversations with entrepreneurs, advisors, and dealmakers. So until next time, thanks for joining us, and have a great day.

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