#62 Legacy, leadership & global growth. The Nolands way.

TRANSCRIPT: THE bizval PODCAST
Guest: Stuart Noland, CEO — Noland’s Capital
Host: Graham Stephen, CEO and Co-Founder, bizval

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[00:00:44] Graham Stephen: Okay. Welcome to the bizval Podcast, where we unpack stories behind global entrepreneurs, advisors, and business builders who are shaping the world of business today. Today, I’m really excited to be joined by somebody who, you know, he’s a fantastic guy, but he embodies legacy.

[00:01:04] Graham Stephen: Innovation and leadership altogether, so I’m really building him up here, but Stuart Nolan, the head of Nolan’s Capital. Stuart’s part of a firm that was started by his father and his uncle in the late 1970s.

[00:01:17] Graham Stephen: And it’s grown into a truly international professional services group. So we’re going to explore a little bit today about what it… what it takes to build across generations, importantly, the values that drive a business forward.

[00:01:32] Graham Stephen: And how Nonance continues to innovate in today’s sort of changing advisory landscape. So, Stuart, it’s wonderful to have you here today.

[00:01:41] Stuart Noland: Hi Graham, yeah, thanks very much for having me. I’m really excited about the opportunity to be on the podcast today, and looking forward to sharing a little bit about my background and Nolan’s and the path that we’ve gone on to get to where we are today.

[00:01:54] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. So, I think just in terms of the structure for our listeners, we’re going to talk a little bit about the founding story of Nolan’s.

[00:02:00] Graham Stephen: Hopefully you’ve… hopefully you’ve had some family… family meetings, and you can fill in all the detail around that. You know, joining the family business, we’re going to talk about, as I said earlier, about, you know, building an international advisory network, and you can talk a bit about the countries that you… that you’re in, and pre the show, as you said, you’re going off to Mauritius.

[00:02:20] Graham Stephen: next week, so maybe that’s one of the perks of an international business. You get to have island holidays every now and again. The values, people, and partnerships, and then importantly, sort of that succession and leadership transition. I think that’s a key part of the discussion. So.

[00:02:36] Graham Stephen: I think to kick off, Stuart, let’s talk about the origins of Nolan. So the story goes back almost 5 decades. Don’t you sort of share a little bit about how it all began?

[00:02:50] Stuart Noland: Oh, thanks, Graham. I think, so Nolan’s was founded in 1976, so you’re right, I think next year’s our 50th birthday, so to speak, which is… which is very exciting. Started by my dad, Clive, and his brother, George.

[00:03:03] Stuart Noland: Both, chartered accountants finished their articles coming through the traditional, CA route out of university.

[00:03:11] Stuart Noland: I think they were both from quite humble beginnings. Unfortunately, my grandfather passed away when they were both very young, so raised by a single mother.

[00:03:20] Stuart Noland: And, really had to kind of build… we’re really excited to build something themselves, based on the strong foundation that they had coming out of university.

[00:03:32] Stuart Noland: they… I think they quickly realized that the existing, call it accounting or auditor, the players in the market at that stage were…

[00:03:42] Stuart Noland: We’re mainly international-based, and it’s what my dad always refers to as the Old Boys Club, in that there was a very big emphasis on what school you went to, what your pedigree was, what your background was.

[00:03:55] Stuart Noland: et cetera, in terms of promotion opportunities and where you got to. And he and his brother realized that there was… there was a big gap in the market for something different.

[00:04:04] Stuart Noland: And the premise that they based the firm on at that stage was, you know, they didn’t want to be your ordinary charted accountant. And even to this day, one of our taglines is, you know, not your ordinary auditors, not your ordinary chartered accountants.

[00:04:17] Stuart Noland: But they wanted to be… they wanted to be different. They didn’t want to walk into a room and for everyone to say, oh, here are the auditors.

[00:04:24] Stuart Noland: And they specifically based their strategy on fostering these very deep relationships. And that’s kind of how they differentiated themselves early on.

[00:04:35] Stuart Noland: Obviously started out a very small firm, I think it was 2 or 3 of them. It’s basically the typical startup story, working from… working from home in those days, which was obviously a lot more challenging than it is now without the technology.

[00:04:49] Stuart Noland: And and having to find different and unique ways in terms of building a client base from, effectively, from nothing. And the main way they started that was through sports.

[00:05:02] Stuart Noland: So my father was a very good sportsman. He played semi-professional soccer at that point in time, SA Universities, cricket, baseball, soccer, etc. And through those networks that they developed specifically around the Western Cape area, they were able to start to pick up

[00:05:19] Stuart Noland: Small bits of business, which, which ultimately grew into something, to where we are today.

[00:05:26] Stuart Noland: I’ve always… I’ve always said my dad is actually more of a marketer trapped in an auditor’s body, so he loves relationships, he loves networking, he loves getting out there and meeting people, and

[00:05:39] Stuart Noland: And actually understanding what, you know, a little bit more about them to the core. And even when they started the business, he really was friends. When I say friends, he was… he was close friends with 95% of his clients.

[00:05:53] Stuart Noland: So, he would go to their house for brides, he would… he would build that foundation, and it’s… and it’s off that foundation he was able to… to slowly grow the firm and build a reputation that he could ultimately, ultimately use as a springboard to, kind of, more formal, business operations thereafter.

[00:06:12] Graham Stephen: I mean, it’s a fascinating backstory, and I, you know, I just love the parts that you emphasize around relational and building relationships. You know, at the end of the day.

[00:06:21] Graham Stephen: you know, it’s not about accountancy or tax and that. It’s about, you know, actually what you’re selling is you’re selling trust.

[00:06:28] Graham Stephen: And it sounds simple, but people do business with people that they like and trust, and I think, obviously, your dad kind of intuitively knew that. I mean, they still had to be able to…

[00:06:39] Graham Stephen: do T-accounts back then, and add up journals, and all those sorts of things. Clearly they did that quite well. I mean, maybe if you can share a little bit, you know, before, you know, your journey is, you know, obviously it was your dad and your brother, sorry, your dad and your uncle. You know, did they sort of…

[00:06:57] Graham Stephen: complement each other, you know, you spoke about your dad being quite relational, and you know, what did it mean to them as brothers, I guess, having grown up in a, you know, you know, single mom household without a dad and all of that? Were there elements of that that kind of

[00:07:13] Graham Stephen: came into that relationship, and almost, you know, Nolan’s being a bit of a legacy and building that. I mean, yeah, I’d love to hear if there’s a little bit more behind that.

[00:07:22] Stuart Noland: Yes, I think 100%, Graham. I think they… they really had a drive to build something.

[00:07:28] Stuart Noland: And they did complement each other very well. I think my Uncle George is,

[00:07:34] Stuart Noland: very technical, very intellectual, very smart, also very much a people’s person, but very different to my father, who was more on the sporty side. So, I think that they complemented each other very well, and I think growing up together.

[00:07:52] Stuart Noland: they knew each other very well, and they knew each other’s strengths and weaknesses very well, and I think that was a key component of building the business in the early years.

[00:08:02] Stuart Noland: Obviously, working with your brother, or working in any family business, you’re gonna have, you’re gonna have disagreements, and you’re gonna have kind of the sibling rivalry and sibling banter that goes along the way.

[00:08:13] Stuart Noland: But it’s always from a good place, I think, and it’s always because, you know, they really wanted to build something together, and… and show, yeah, and show… prove peop… prove everyone else wrong, that they could… they could start their own firm from nothing, without the kind of infrastructure and the background of some of the more established firms, and do things.

[00:08:33] Graham Stephen: Yes.

[00:08:33] Stuart Noland: slightly differently. And I think the one thing that they did differently in those early years, in addition to forming those strong relationships, was they really had an entrepreneurial mindset. Not only the way in which they started the firm, but also the types of clients that they liked to attract.

[00:08:48] Stuart Noland: And even to this day, there are still a number of Nolan’s clients that are… that have been with the firm for 40-plus years, who also started out with

[00:08:57] Stuart Noland: you know, a dream, and one small company, or one small store, or petrol station, etc, that has now grown into multi-multi-million or billion rand operations over the last 40 years. And Nolan’s has been with them through that journey, which has, I think, been really special.

[00:09:16] Graham Stephen: Yeah, that’s fantastic. So I’m going to move a little bit to your story, Stuart. You know, you yourself have had an impressive career in finance, capital advisory.

[00:09:28] Graham Stephen: And you didn’t kind of just come out of school or university straight into the family business. You know, you… you kind of went and carved your own path for a little bit.

[00:09:39] Graham Stephen: And then you came back into the family business, so to speak, you know, so was that always part of the plan? Was it something that evolved naturally? If you can just share a little bit about your background, and kind of, how you ended up where you are today.

[00:09:54] Stuart Noland: Hmm. Yeah, so, I mean, I went through quite a traditional CA background coming out of school, so I think my father always made sure that I

[00:10:04] Stuart Noland: had the right building blocks in place to leave my options open. So, I studied accounting at school, I went to UCT, I did the business science, finance, CA option all the way through. But I was always very mindful that

[00:10:18] Stuart Noland: I didn’t want to seem like I was just being parachuted into the business, and I hadn’t earned my own stripes. So for me, specifically, it was very important that I went out and did my own thing first, got a different exposure, a different experience, and kind of proved myself

[00:10:35] Stuart Noland: not only to others, but also to myself, that I can do it without having the cloud over my head of, oh, he’s joining the family business, he’s just been parachuted into a role that he doesn’t necessarily deserve.

[00:10:47] Stuart Noland: So, so, you know, leaving… leaving the… once I completed my… I did my articles at KPMG in Cape Town. I then transferred to the London office, with KPMG, where I was a manager in the financial services division for a… for a period. I then decided to study further, so I did a Master’s in finance.

[00:11:06] Stuart Noland: And then an MBA at the University of Oxford. And then I was kind of at a crossroads, and I decided that, you know, did I want to work abroad or move back home? I decided to move back home with Bain & Company in the management consulting role.

[00:11:24] Stuart Noland: And I did that for a number of years to kind of hone some of my consulting skills, before ultimately joining the family business in 2019.

[00:11:33] Stuart Noland: Having said that, obviously, growing up in a family business, you’re always close to the family business. It’s always part of your, you know, the business kind of…

[00:11:42] Graham Stephen: Hmm.

[00:11:42] Stuart Noland: it ran through everyone’s blood growing up. It was my… it was my dad’s… you know, I didn’t even see my dad much growing up, to be honest, because he was always traveling, always building the business,

[00:11:53] Stuart Noland: And, you know, if… I was attending Nolan’s Functions from 10 years old, you know, just helping out where I can. When the firm was so small, I started as a filing clerk at 16. My dad made me work every single school holiday.

[00:12:07] Stuart Noland: from 16 years old, so I was very familiar with the business, but again, for me, it was important to go out, do my own thing, get the right level of experience before returning.

[00:12:20] Graham Stephen: Was it always part of the plan, that, you know, in your mind, or certainly in your dad’s mind, that you would join the business, or was it a case of, hey, go explore the world, do your own thing, and if you happen to find your way back into the family business fold, fantastic. If not, we’ll support you in whatever you choose to do. What did that journey look like?

[00:12:40] Stuart Noland: So, we never actively spoke about me joining the business, which was interesting. I think there was always an implicit, expectation, or,

[00:12:50] Stuart Noland: I could tell that my dad would have loved for me to have joined the business, but we never spoke about it, and he never put pressure on me. And I think when I finally decided to come back and make that decision, I actually had to approach him and say.

[00:13:04] Stuart Noland: You know, we…

[00:13:06] Graham Stephen: Hold up.

[00:13:07] Stuart Noland: Yeah, you know, I’m very… it’s very impressive what you built, and it would almost be silly of me not to give it a go, right? To step in, throw my hat into the ring, and see what value I can add, and use what I’ve learned in all the different businesses and roles that I’d been in up until that point.

[00:13:26] Stuart Noland: To bring value into the family business. And for me, it was quite important. I never wanted to work for my father.

[00:13:33] Stuart Noland: So, when we… when he started the business, it was always an audit business that focused on audit tax and secretarial. That was the core business for the first 45 years, or 44 years of operation.

[00:13:48] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:13:49] Stuart Noland: What we realized is… You know, the audits… the audit industry was shifting. There was a lot of pressure on,

[00:13:57] Stuart Noland: on auditors to not necessarily add value to their clients because of various independence concerns and pressures from Uber.

[00:14:05] Stuart Noland: So it was important for a lot of firms to move into this advisory space, which was separate from audit, but which was a way for us to really continue to add value to our clients, but remain independent and compliant. And so when I joined the firm, that kind of was my main role, was

[00:14:24] Stuart Noland: to set up and to formalize the advisory function of the business, and start moving towards Nolan’s offering a broader range of services and effectively capturing a larger portion of our clients’ of our clients’ wallets and our clients’ needs.

[00:14:41] Graham Stephen: Yeah, so while you… I mean, you also had the experience, I mean, as you say, you had been at Bain, you’d been in management consulting, so, you know, you came in with a… with a very different perspective, and able to almost carve out your own niche, if you want to call it, with Nolan’s Capital, which… which is, you know, what you head up now, and I think that’s such a beautiful story, you know, it’s,

[00:15:01] Graham Stephen: You know, you earn your own stripes, you come in, but you added value into the business, and that was your mindset. You weren’t coming in with, how do I just kind of extract from what’s being built?

[00:15:11] Graham Stephen: It’s like, how do I add to this? And I think that’s a really powerful lesson, because often when we talk about succession in businesses, whether it’s family businesses or not, it’s like, succession doesn’t mean go and do what the previous CEO did. Succession means

[00:15:26] Graham Stephen: yeah, the business needs to keep going, but it’s continually evolving and, you know, changing direction and being fine-tuned, and I think… I think that encapsulates it so wonderfully, Stuart.

[00:15:37] Graham Stephen: So you had spent a bit of time in, in, in, in, in the UK. I want to move a little bit onto, sort of, like, the building of an international, sort of, network, an advisory network, and I think for, you know, our non-South African listeners, if you just think of the timeline around Nolan’s being built.

[00:15:53] Graham Stephen: late 70s, 80s, at that stage, South Africa was probably at the height of the isolationist apartheid era. So I guess in those days, it wasn’t even on the cards to sort of think about expanding.

[00:16:05] Graham Stephen: internationally. But I think one of the remarkable things about what you guys have done is that international footprint, you know, so you’ve got operations that extend and clients that extend way beyond South Africa. Can you talk a little bit about how the business evolved, from which, I guess, started as a…

[00:16:22] Graham Stephen: a local, regional-based practice with a strong relationship focused into what is now a networked global firm. You know, maybe what does that look like today? And then, how did you get there?

[00:16:38] Stuart Noland: Yeah, so I think the priorities of the firm shifted over time as we grew. I mean, starting out in Cape Town and capturing, you know, building a big presence in the Western Cape was an important building block initially.

[00:16:52] Stuart Noland: But as we… as we… as we grew and we… we tried to become a, you know, really a… an alternative to the Big Four at that time.

[00:17:01] Stuart Noland: We realized that it was important we could offer our clients, initially, a national solution. So the expansion first started out moving from Cape Town up the coast to… to Durban.

[00:17:13] Stuart Noland: Then we moved and set up an operation in Johannesburg, and ultimately, we had the mindset that we needed to go where our clients were, because we wanted to be able to service our clients, and as our clients grew, it became very important that if we weren’t able to service them in the key markets locally, then they would have to move to a firm that could.

[00:17:33] Stuart Noland: So initially…

[00:17:34] Graham Stephen: to interrupt you very quickly. Back in those days, there wasn’t Zoom and Teams meetings and all those things. I mean, this was, like, physically set up offices and… Correct, you know.

[00:17:46] Stuart Noland: When you want to… Yeah, then when you needed to go and audit someone, you needed to go to their premises and physically inspect the books and the files. So, you know, it wasn’t as easy as it is now.

[00:17:56] Stuart Noland: And I think, you know, a similar story goes on to the international expansion. So, at the moment, I think we’re 9 offices in South Africa, and then the next step, we had very similar conversations with our clients. We had clients saying.

[00:18:10] Stuart Noland: you know, I’m looking to open up an operation in Nigeria, or in Zimbabwe, or Zambia. Are you able to help with audits? And at that point, we’d say, look, well, we know one or two guys in those regions, but it’s not Nolan’s offices, and it became quite a difficult sell to ensure that your client was looked after, and that the quality and repu… and the work that these guys were doing was of a Nolan standard.

[00:18:36] Stuart Noland: And so, very, very similarly, we made the decision that if we were going to continue to service our clients locally, we needed to have an international solution, specifically an African footprint. And then over the last 15 years, we’ve opened those 7 offices in Africa.

[00:18:54] Stuart Noland: With the view, I think, moving forward, of continuing to… to expand that… that footprint going forward.

[00:19:01] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. I mean, what… what are some of the, I guess, the challenges that you’ve faced in, sort of, scaling…

[00:19:08] Graham Stephen: you know, professional services internationally. I think you spoke about quality control and all of those sorts of things, but I mean, there must be other issues, communication barriers, compliance, all of that. What have been the biggest challenges in doing that?

[00:19:23] Stuart Noland: So I think the most important… the most important thing for us is the brand. Nolan’s the brand, it’s… it’s been built over 50 years, and making sure that you protect that brand as you expand is…

[00:19:35] Stuart Noland: is critically important. And as you know, you know, it can take 50 years to build a brand and 10 minutes to ruin it, right? And we’ve seen that with a lot of our competitors, is there’s been a huge amount of pressure and negative press on some of the accounting and audit competitors in the market. And every decision we make when going abroad is how do we minimize those risks?

[00:19:59] Stuart Noland: And it really comes down… I mean, you mentioned some of them. Obviously, compliance is important. For us, that’s a tick box exercise, you know, you need to ensure that everything… that’s the bare minimum, right, in terms of what everyone’s doing. But identifying the right people to run those offices, putting in place the right training, and ensuring that the hiring and recruitment policies are correct has been by far the biggest learnings that we’ve picked up.

[00:20:22] Stuart Noland: Since expanding. And it’s not easy, because, you know, to go… to set up an office in Zimbabwe, for example, I think

[00:20:31] Stuart Noland: My dad met with over 300 potential firms who wanted that license in Zimbabwe to operate. And narrowing that down and finding the right people who you can trust and actually sit down and have a conversation with and get that warm, fuzzy feeling.

[00:20:48] Stuart Noland: Takes a huge amount of time and effort to get it right, but in the long run, it really has, you know, proved dividends in the fact that

[00:20:57] Stuart Noland: We… we formed very, very strong relationships with our partners internationally.

[00:21:03] Stuart Noland: We… we ensure that we have very regular communication, so we have annual conferences every year where all of the international partners come together, just to ensure we can maintain that culture and that way of working, and we call it the Nolan’s Way, right? In terms of… in terms of how we expect everyone to interact and behave.

[00:21:21] Stuart Noland: So that when our clients go abroad, they’re getting a very, very similar feel and experience from the various offices around the continent.

[00:21:29] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and I think it’s fascinating, obviously, Nolan’s was grounded in sort of old-school face-to-face building of relationships. Today, it’s easy to kind of get a presence internationally, especially with online businesses and all of those sorts of things, but the reality is nothing beats

[00:21:49] Graham Stephen: FaceTime. But that also comes with challenges and compromises, you know? You, if you’re building a business, you’re away from your family, you’re traveling, you’re doing all of those things, and, you know, just to bring a little bit of, sort of, the bizval story around that, you know, we… we are growing…

[00:22:05] Graham Stephen: In the US, in the UK. And it resonates a lot of what you’re sharing, is that it’s all very well to, you know, find us on the internet in the US.

[00:22:17] Graham Stephen: But you’ve got to have the right person on the ground. The same in the UK. You’ve got to get there, go and see clients, you know, play around or golf with them.

[00:22:26] Graham Stephen: even if you play badly, you know, have a meal, break bread with them, you know, so those things matter, which I think is a sort of a nice segue into sort of the next section around sort of values, people, and partnerships, you know? So you’ve spoken a lot about that. It’s people first, it’s long-term relationships, it’s integrity.

[00:22:46] Graham Stephen: Talk a little bit about, you know, the Nolan’s values, the Nolan’s way, as you talk about it. What are those sort of key values?

[00:22:54] Graham Stephen: And how do you think those have contributed to and shaped the growth of the business, but also things like the clients that you choose to work with, and the partners that you choose to engage with?

[00:23:08] Stuart Noland: Yeah, so I think, you know, it’s… it’s one thing having values, and it’s another thing adhering to those values. And I think what Nolan’s has done really well is, because our values have been very clear and very consistent over a long period of time, we make almost all of our business decisions with those values in mind.

[00:23:26] Stuart Noland: And it’s… it’s not complex, you mentioned a couple of them, obviously. Relations and solutions, very, very poor, important. Trust, extremely important. But overarching, I think we like to…

[00:23:39] Stuart Noland: we like to have fun in what we do. You know, we don’t take ourselves too seriously. I think a lot of the recruitment that we do, we hire for personality, not just technical ability.

[00:23:50] Stuart Noland: I mean, we really believe that a lot of people… you can learn a lot of the technical skills required to do a job with proper training and mentorship and experience, but what’s a lot more difficult to learn

[00:24:00] Stuart Noland: Is, you know, being a nice guy, being personable, being polite, being respectful. And even in the way in which we deal with our clients.

[00:24:09] Stuart Noland: We are very, very, specific in terms of which client relationships we choose to pursue, and to, you know, and to go into business with.

[00:24:20] Stuart Noland: Regardless of the financial… just the financial implications of that relationship, we need to… we need to make sure that they also fit the Nolan’s values, and that our staff, are well taken care of, and that they’re very comfortable working at all the various client sites that they have to… have to go to.

[00:24:38] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, it’s fascinating because, like, especially a lot of entrepreneurial businesses and startup businesses and that, you know, the focus nowadays is, like, on chasing revenue, and how do you grow, okay? And how do you grow quickly so you can raise the next round of funding, and I mean, you obviously see with a lot of your clients being in the Nolan

[00:24:56] Graham Stephen: Nolan’s capital space as well, but, you know, I think sometimes you need to take that pause back and say, are these the right people that we’re doing business with, in terms of your clients? A lot of people, like, not all revenue is created equal, right? You know, so when you talk about building a business of value, it’s like, well, what percentage are recurring businesses, or recurring revenue?

[00:25:19] Graham Stephen: And most people immediately assume, well, do you have a subscription, and is there a direct debit going off every month? That’s recurring revenue. But actually, a better form of recurring revenue

[00:25:30] Graham Stephen: is the kind of client who chooses to come back to you, even though they don’t have to. Or who voluntarily says, hey, you’re looking for an auditor.

[00:25:40] Graham Stephen: use my guys. I mean, I don’t know how many people love to recommend auditors. I’m joking, I mean, I’m a chartered accountant myself, but, you know, I mean, that’s the kind of stuff that really matters.

[00:25:51] Graham Stephen: maybe just share a little bit about, you know, I don’t know if you’ve got a story along the way, you know, have you ever let go of a client? I mean, obviously no names mentioned, but have you ever…

[00:25:59] Graham Stephen: Well, you ever been through a journey when you’re trying to sign up a client, and then you’ve realized, wow, actually, you know what, there isn’t a fit yet, and kind of shifted away. I’m putting you on the spot.

[00:26:08] Stuart Noland: No, look, I think there’s definitely been examples like that, where we’ve either decided to not take the appointment on because of feelings we’ve had in the pitch process, or down the line, where we don’t believe that the client and our values are aligned. We’ve decided to step away.

[00:26:27] Stuart Noland: So, it’s, and it happens on a regular basis, to be honest, and I think the…

[00:26:34] Stuart Noland: Look, the big thing now in the market is, you know, with South Africa on the gray list, everyone’s talking about KYC, KYC, know your client, know your client. But really, in the Nolan’s ecosystem.

[00:26:46] Stuart Noland: If you are living the Nolan’s values, and you are really forming a close relationship with your client, and you are really, getting to know them on a more personal level.

[00:26:56] Stuart Noland: then KYC almost becomes a tick box exercise, rather than a kind of a business-critical process. And that’s kind of what we found. So, most of our clients, if I’m being honest, have been with the firm for a very, very long period of time.

[00:27:11] Stuart Noland: specifically on the audit side as well, where it’s more an annual service offering. Obviously, on the advisory side, it’s a much younger part of the business, and so there we are still going through a lot of teething pains in terms of

[00:27:23] Stuart Noland: You know, what type of clients are we trying to target, and what does that look like, and what are the implications for the rest of the business?

[00:27:29] Stuart Noland: But yeah, I think it’s… as you know, with any kind of new venture, even if it is within an established firm, you go through a lot of these teething problems that we’ve had to

[00:27:39] Stuart Noland: Kind of learn a few tough lessons, pay some school fees. But luckily, with the support of the broader business around us, we’ve been able to get through that, and continue to grow and improve over time.

[00:27:50] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. So, I’m going to move on to, kind of, the… sort of the… a thing that we love to talk about. You spoke about it in the beginning, but sort of succession and leadership transitions, okay? So you’ve shared a bit about your story, how you came into the business, but you know, you’re not the only person in the family, okay? And I think many businesses, particularly family businesses.

[00:28:11] Graham Stephen: What’s the HBO show, Succession, right? I mean, that’s an entertaining look at succession, so to speak, but when it comes to generational leadership.

[00:28:20] Graham Stephen: handing over the reins, it’s not just about system and process and tick the box. It can be emotional, it can be complex,

[00:28:29] Graham Stephen: have… how has Nolan’s approached, sort of, succession and continuity? And, you know, talk about your story, also other people within the business, you know, how do you create succession for people in the business who are not part of the family? You know, so, yeah, let’s just have an open chat around what that’s meant for Nolan’s and how you’ve approached that.

[00:28:50] Stuart Noland: So I think you hit the nail on the head there, Graham, when you spoke about other people in the business. And you say they’re not family, but, you know, we consider everyone who works at Nolan’s part of the family, realistically. I mean, I know maybe not blood family, but…

[00:29:01] Graham Stephen: I mean, in the technical sense, right?

[00:29:03] Stuart Noland: Yeah, sure, of course, of course. And it’s a cheesy thing to say, but similar to our client relationships, we have a very large number of employees who’ve been with the business for now 35, 40 plus years. So, I think by creating an environment in which people enjoy working.

[00:29:21] Stuart Noland: And in… and creating a culture where You know, one of our… we have these things called keystone Habits, which I haven’t really touched on, but we have… we have 25 keystone Habits, which kind of form part of our culture, and the one keystone habit, which everyone remembers very clearly is

[00:29:39] Stuart Noland: Don’t be an arsehole. And that’s kind of something that everyone at Nolan’s knows, and it’s… and it goes down to everyone’s core. It’s like, when you’re making decisions, don’t be an arsehole. Be a nice guy, be a good oak, be someone that…

[00:29:52] Stuart Noland: you know, people often talk about… I’m getting a bit sidetracked now… people often talk about the airport test. So if you’re going to an airport and you’re boarding a flight with a couple of your colleagues.

[00:30:07] Stuart Noland: sorry, if you’re going to an airport and you’re boarding a flight, and your flight is delayed by a couple of hours, is your first thought, I’ve now got to sit and make small talk with these colleagues, and it’s going to be such a mission, or are you excited to spend some time with them, right? So, I think the…

[00:30:24] Stuart Noland: We have a very, very strong leadership team within the firm, and that’s made my entrance into the business a lot smoother, in that.

[00:30:32] Graham Stephen: Hmm.

[00:30:32] Stuart Noland: I’ve tried to carve out my own area in the firm that I can… that I believe I can focus on and grow and prove.

[00:30:46] Stuart Noland: that I can go and grow and build myself. And then, obviously, at, you know, the vision at some point is that as I grow within the firm.

[00:30:58] Stuart Noland: you know, my role within the firm will start changing slightly, and I’ll start moving towards, some of the more… the kind of the more leadership roles in some of the higher structures. But what has been great is, as I’ve joined the firm now.

[00:31:12] Stuart Noland: it’s… I think it’s worked very well that my dad is still around and still very much involved in the business, in terms of, the role he plays and the mentorship that he can provide me and other people within the business. So instead of him resigning one day and me stepping in.

[00:31:28] Stuart Noland: It’s been a much more slower transition, where I’m slowly getting exposed to… to the right structures, and the right environments, and the decision-making process, and the Nolan’s Way, again, so that when that day comes and that transition

[00:31:42] Stuart Noland: Happens. It’ll be… it’ll be a much smoother process than, again, just being parachuted in from… from the outside.

[00:31:52] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and he’s also been working, I guess, on the business rather than in the business for a while. He strikes me as somebody who’s quite hands-on, but, you know, in terms of day-to-day operations and what have you, you’ve built the structure to do that.

[00:32:07] Graham Stephen: A couple of follow-on questions from that is, you know, what advice, you know, given that you are a family…

[00:32:13] Graham Stephen: you know, founded and led business yourself. What advice do you give to other family businesses, whether you’re clients or not, that are going through a similar transition?

[00:32:24] Graham Stephen: You know, and then… you know, how do you keep that legacy alive without feeling trapped by it? You know, I mean, without feeling the pressure to, I’ve got to live up to what my dad did, or my uncle, or whatever the case might be. So, two questions in one. What do you do with other clients and advise them? And then, how do you sort of manage that, keeping that legacy alive?

[00:32:43] Stuart Noland: So, I think it’s very important. I think the transition process is very important, and you don’t want to have the situation where you… where the people within the firm feel that whoever’s taking over doesn’t deserve to be there.

[00:33:00] Stuart Noland: So, making sure that there is an element of respect and an element of understanding and kind of handover in that process, I think, is very, very important.

[00:33:13] Stuart Noland: And I think, obviously, you can’t do everything yourself. It’s never… and I really believe, you know, I’m one of 600 Nolan’s employees, right? And everyone has their value to add, and everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

[00:33:26] Stuart Noland: And finding a way to leverage those strengths and putting the right people in place in the right areas, regardless of whether it’s a family business or not, I think is critically important for succession planning. And, you know, you can have the most perfect succession plan in place, but if you don’t… if something goes wrong.

[00:33:43] Stuart Noland: And, you know, something changes, and, you know, that plan can fall to pieces very, very quickly unless you have backup plans and alternate solutions, etc. So…

[00:33:54] Stuart Noland: So that’s kind of how we’ve… how we’ve approached… you know, if I decided tomorrow that I didn’t want to stay in New Orleans and I wanted to do something else, I don’t… you know, the firm would be perfectly fine. There’d be… there’d be 10 different people that could step into the role and make sure that… that this firm could continue for years and years to come.

[00:34:10] Stuart Noland: And so I think that’s really, really important to plan for all sorts of eventualities, and obviously ensure that everyone is on the same page, and that communication is very, very clear in terms of what the future looks like, or could look like.

[00:34:25] Graham Stephen: I mean, I’m just wondering if there isn’t some influence from your dad’s sporting days, in terms of how he’s thought about that. You know, if you think of a rugby team or a soccer team, you know, if you… you know, you don’t have to be in the starting 11. You can be somebody, I’ll use a Springbok analogy, if you’re coming in in the bomb squad for the last 15 minutes, you know, you’re all.

[00:34:45] Stuart Noland: Yeah.

[00:34:45] Graham Stephen: this is important, but if somebody gets sent off with a yellow card, or… it doesn’t matter, the team still functions as a team, and I think a lot of those principles are kind of ingrained in the way you guys.

[00:34:57] Stuart Noland: do business and think about business.

[00:35:00] Graham Stephen: I’m… sort of last question. What’s next for… for Nolan’s? Okay, so you’ve… you know, you’re coming in, in terms of the next era, you’ve started Nolan’s Capital, but what’s next, both for you, Stuart, and for the group?

[00:35:17] Stuart Noland: Yeah, so I think, continue to consolidate this in the South African market. We really do see ourselves as a very, very viable alternative to the big four, and we’d like to position ourselves as the mid-size firm… mid-size firm of choice within South Africa.

[00:35:34] Stuart Noland: And obviously, as mentioned earlier, continue to expand into the broader African market. So we’re looking to open another 5 to 7 offices in Africa by 2030, which I think is very achievable.

[00:35:46] Stuart Noland: And, and continue to filter the values and the lessons that we’ve learned in the more established firm in South Africa into those markets.

[00:35:56] Stuart Noland: And I think the… what we’ve really seen is the… obviously, from a compliance and a methodology point of view, we’re able to add a lot of value to the smaller, newer firms that are opening up in the different markets, but from a value, a culture, and a way of working, I think that’s… that’s something that we’ve been able to transform

[00:36:15] Stuart Noland: some of the smaller offices in the African countries, and ultimately create this network that we can rely on from one firm to another, which is… which has been fantastic.

[00:36:26] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. So, I mean, Stuart, before we wrap up, we always do what we call a rapid-fire set of questions, so this is a bit of a fun section to

[00:36:35] Graham Stephen: Yeah, a little bit more about you. But before we get into that, you know, if you were to give one piece of advice to an entrepreneur or a client, sort of, building a business today, in particular a very values-based business, like, what would that be?

[00:36:53] Stuart Noland: So I think you need to understand what your values are and stick to them. And, you know, once you’ve decided on your values, every decision that you make, especially in the early stages when you’re creating that business infrastructure, you need to ensure that you’re making those decisions with those values in mind.

[00:37:10] Stuart Noland: I also think there’s obviously no substitute for hard work. starting out a business, it’s… there’s a lot of luck involved, but there’s a lot of hard work involved, and you can’t do everything yourself, so surrounding yourself with people that you trust, that you believe in, that you respect, who can help you along that journey, I think will set you up for success.

[00:37:31] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. Okay, so I’ve got 5 questions for you. You’ve got 15 seconds on each. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve received from either your father or your uncle?

[00:37:43] Stuart Noland: I think… don’t take yourself… don’t take yourself too seriously. I think, you know, we’re spending a lot of time at work these days, but you need to enjoy what you do, and you need to enjoy the people you work with.

[00:37:56] Graham Stephen: I love that. Okay. A book or a quote that sort of shaped your leadership style?

[00:38:03] Stuart Noland: I think similar, if you… I think it’s an African proverb, actually, I think it’s along the lines of, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together.

[00:38:14] Graham Stephen: I love that, you know, and ironically, you actually… when you’ve got that right, you go faster together, but you first got to get that foundation there, right? Yeah.

[00:38:26] Graham Stephen: What’s been the… you know, we’ve spoken a lot about the sort of upside and all the positives. What’s been one of the toughest business lessons that you’ve learned?

[00:38:35] Stuart Noland: Look, I think… people… well, you know, we’ve spoken a lot about people, and I think people are our strength, but they can also be, the biggest weakness if you… if you get your hiring and your culture wrong.

[00:38:49] Stuart Noland: And often with people, it involves a lot of very difficult conversations… a lot of difficult conversations, and I think the biggest thing I’ve learned is, with those conversations, it’s better to, what we call, eat a bullfrog early.

[00:39:01] Stuart Noland: So, you have those conversations as early on, you know, first thing in the morning, you get to office, you realize you’ve got a problem, you have an open and honest conversation with someone to try and get it out in the open as quickly as possible, rather than letting those things fester under the surface.

[00:39:17] Graham Stephen: I’ve never heard that saying, but I like to eat a bullfrog. If Nolan’s were a person, well, I guess Nolan’s is a person, but if Nolan’s were a person, how would you describe them?

[00:39:32] Stuart Noland: Oh, I think, you know, Nolan’s would be that friend of a friend that you meet at a Brye.

[00:39:39] Stuart Noland: Someone that’s friendly, personable, knowledgeable, easy to talk to, very eager to understand a little bit more about you, and who you are, and how you know everyone, and always willing to go that extra mile to make an impact and cement the relationship.

[00:39:56] Graham Stephen: I absolutely love that. And then, the last question, it wouldn’t be a bizval podcast if I didn’t… if I didn’t bring the word value into the discussion, not value as in values, but what does value mean to you, both personally and professionally?

[00:40:13] Stuart Noland: So I think, look, there’s a softer side of this question. I think. value… When you as an individual get value, it’s that feeling that you get, that you’re getting… that you’re getting a good service, and no matter what it costs, you’re happy to pay for it, because you feel like what you’re receiving is in excess of what you’re giving.

[00:40:34] Stuart Noland: And so, whether it’s personal or professional, I think that’s the… that’s always the hat I have, at least, when I’m thinking in terms of value, is ensuring that the person that is receiving that value gets that warm, fuzzy feeling in terms of what they’re receiving versus what they are giving up.

[00:40:52] Graham Stephen: I love that, you know, at the end of the day, it’s, are you solving a custom problem, and are you doing it in a way that makes their life easier, in a way, and if you can crack that consistently, that translates through to bottom line, assuming you’ve got a business model and all of that sort of stuff. Because if you do that, people are prepared to pay more, they’re prepared to come back, they’re prepared to do all those good things that mathematically, I guess, make a business,

[00:41:15] Graham Stephen: more valuable, so I love that you’ve gone back to first principles there. Stuart, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the bizval podcast. I think,

[00:41:24] Graham Stephen: I think your story really just, you know, will resonate with a lot of listeners. You know, you just deliver it in such a humble, down-to-earth way that kind of…

[00:41:35] Graham Stephen: yeah, as I say, it feels like we’re sitting around a braai or a barbecue, having a friendly chat, you know, and I think it’s about legacy, leadership, and just that relentless focus on people and relationships. So, you know, I really want to thank you for joining us today. I’ll make one closing comment, you know, we’re talking about building.

[00:41:52] Graham Stephen: And I’ve been looking at your background, you know, you’ve got this, you know, part of town where there’s a lot of building going on. This crane has been spinning around during the podcast, and… and it’s just sort of almost a metaphor for, like, building never stops, you know? It’s, you don’t walk out of here and the job’s done with Nolan’s. It’s always ongoing, and it’s sort of perpetual, and…

[00:42:11] Graham Stephen: And, you know, 30 years’ time, I don’t know if they’ll be doing podcasts then, but maybe your kids or whatever will be having this conversation down the line. So thanks for joining us, and, you know, to our listeners, hope to see you again soon.

[00:42:25] Graham Stephen: Any last closing words, Stuart, before we… before we wrap up?

[00:42:30] Stuart Noland: Just thanks very much for having me, Graham. I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s been great catching up with you, and I really appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast.

[00:42:38] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. Sure, thanks for joining us again, and we’ll catch you all soon.

[00:42:43] Stuart Noland: Thank you.

[00:42:49] Graham Stephen: I’ll stop recording, just give me a second…

[00:42:52] Stuart Noland: Problem.

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