#66 Bringing humanity back into high finance with Yeshvika Bahadur

TRANSCRIPT: THE bizval PODCAST
Guest: Yeshwika Bahadur, Leadership Coach and Consultant
Host: Graham Stephen, CEO and Co-Founder, bizval

---

[00:01:00] Graham Stephen: Welcome to the bizval Podcast, where we go behind the numbers and get into the real stories that shape value, leadership, and life.

[00:01:08] Graham Stephen: I’m Graham Stephen, the CEO of bizval Global, and today’s episode is something special.

[00:01:15] Graham Stephen: We often talk about deals, data, due diligence, but today we’re talking about the human side of high finance, what it means to lead with heart in a world that glorifies hustle.

[00:01:27] Graham Stephen: My guest, Yashvika Bahadu, or just Yash, as she prefers, is a South African chartered accountant, ex-investment banker.

[00:01:35] Graham Stephen: CFA Level 2 turned writer, poet, and artist. She calls herself a newly unpleasited creative, and she’s bringing humanity back into a world that’s often too polished, too transactional, and too cold. Yesh, welcome to the show.

[00:01:52] Yeshwika Bahadur: Graham, thanks so much for that introduction, and you actually didn’t butcher my whole name!

[00:01:59] Graham Stephen: So tell us a bit about your name. I mean, I believe your surname actually stands for something, so do you want to just share with the audience what that is?

[00:02:06] Yeshwika Bahadur: Yeah, no, of course. I mean, I think there’s… there’s something… something to be said about what’s in a name, and so often I think there’s emphasis placed differently in terms of, like, Bahadu or Bahadur, and I’ve just gotten it a lot, growing it up, growing up, so I really appreciate you, you know, taking the time, even before this podcast, I mean, the listeners wouldn’t know, just to even ask me, you know, about that, and… and what it means in Hindi, it means brave.

[00:02:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: And I think it’s quite fitting, given what we’re gonna talk about in this podcast as well.

[00:02:37] Graham Stephen: Absolutely, and just talking about names, you know, as someone who’s got, you know, either two first names or two surnames which can be pronounced and spelt in a multitude of different ways.

[00:02:47] Graham Stephen: I get it, you know, nowadays somebody just says, hey, you, and I respond, so… but I always take the time just to kind of, you know, get the story behind the name, and how you like to be called out.

[00:02:59] Yeshwika Bahadur: No, thank you.

[00:03:01] Graham Stephen: So, yes, let’s… let’s… we’re gonna have a conversation about… about your story, and, you know, let’s… let’s start…

[00:03:09] Graham Stephen: with your story. So, 10 years in high finance, deal making, corporate advisory, investment banking.

[00:03:17] Graham Stephen: And, you know, a short while ago, you’ve kind of made a decision just to, I guess, pause, reflect, spend some time on poetry, painting, and purpose. Tell us, what happened?

[00:03:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: Sure, thanks, Graham. So, my journey, I… what I seem to have found is that

[00:03:37] Yeshwika Bahadur: I needed more innovation, more creativity, just a different way of…

[00:03:43] Yeshwika Bahadur: almost connecting the dots and finding new neural pathways, through my, you know, through thinking about things, and… and the best way I found to get that is through

[00:03:54] Yeshwika Bahadur: creativity and through innovation. And being in a very corporate, high-finance setting, where one would imagine there would be some element of creativity, this is a space of deal-making, it just felt that it… it kind of came across as very

[00:04:10] Yeshwika Bahadur: not very too structured, and too… we were almost missing the alignment, if I can say that. There was…

[00:04:17] Yeshwika Bahadur: It’s always great to have productivity, it’s always fantastic to, you know, have a plan and be very structured, but in some ways and shapes and forms, I also think that we are missing an element of

[00:04:30] Yeshwika Bahadur: Alignment in that.

[00:04:32] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think… I think that’s so powerful, you know, I think… I chuckle sometimes because I remember one of my mentors earlier in my career said, you know, business is not a spreadsheet. You know, whether you’re in banking or…

[00:04:45] Graham Stephen: you know, investment banking, often it’s just about the ROI and the ROEs, and what does the 300-sheet Excel spreadsheet say. And I think often we forget that there’s a real human heartbeat behind every spreadsheet.

[00:04:59] Yeshwika Bahadur: Well, exactly. I mean, if you look at the systems and processes in place, behind those systems and processes are real human beings. And I was, you know, and you really want to be in an environment that empowers people, and I was finding in the corporate environment that

[00:05:17] Yeshwika Bahadur: we tended to exploit people more than empower. And obviously, exploitation has different meaning to some people than others, but I find when we move into a space of overproductivity or hyperproductivity.

[00:05:29] Yeshwika Bahadur: we are now just losing our humanity in the way we work, in the manner in which we work. And so, moving into this more creative space that I’ve…

[00:05:40] Yeshwika Bahadur: always written, there’s always been an element of creativity in my life. I did dramatic art at school, I’ve, you know, written poetry, I’ve never been quite brave enough to, you know, publish anything, and I’m not sure I ever will. You know, it’s… it’s… it’s… it’s the idea of…

[00:05:57] Yeshwika Bahadur: what speaks to one’s soul, and what… what is meaningful work to someone? And…

[00:06:03] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, I’m obviously not telling the listeners to just completely leave a corporate environment to go, you know, and, you know, do something completely left field or something different, but I do want to get the point across where, you know, if you are sitting in a space where something is just not quite connecting, or you’re not getting enough hours in your day, it seems, or you just, you’re not finding that

[00:06:27] Yeshwika Bahadur: as I said, you’re doing meaningful work, then how can you incorporate a little bit of that in your life, or how can you move with more alignment to who you are to then build out a life that serves you and serves humanity?

[00:06:42] Graham Stephen: Absolutely, and you know, the sort of investment banking world is, you know, quite… it’s a cutthroat world. It’s very competitive, you know, and I suppose some people might be listening in and saying, well, you know, you’ve got multiple zeros at the end of your bonuses every year. Stop complaining, you know, I mean, that’s one take on it, but…

[00:06:59] Yeshwika Bahadur: Good.

[00:07:00] Graham Stephen: I think it goes a lot deeper than that, you know, I think a lot of people are getting to that point, you know.

[00:07:05] Yeshwika Bahadur: on that point, Graham, like, if you mind, just, you know, I think there’s this idea of that the money makes it okay, you know, that there’s this… well, if you… if you almost pay for your soul in… well, at least you’re getting

[00:07:20] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, cash that comes from it. And the greatest currency, I believe, I truly do, is energy, and where our… you know, sometimes you find… you just often… maybe you can attest to this, but I’d love to get your views, but you just don’t seem to feel like you have the energy, per se, or you’re not finding that, like, some things are connecting, in a day, but you’ve had enough sleep, and you… and what I think is that it’s because

[00:07:44] Yeshwika Bahadur: we’re not moving true to our alignment. We’re not moving true to what is our inner compass and, you know, what we’re meant to do in the world. And so, then what happens is that even though, you know, you might be really good at your job, I might be… and that’s what I found when I was in investment banking. I really enjoyed it. I have absolutely no regrets in becoming a chartered accountant and, you know, being in the deal-making space.

[00:08:09] Yeshwika Bahadur: But it felt exhausting. It felt like it was draining my energy, and there’s really two parts to that story that I want to touch on. The one part of it is the, you know, the systemic nature of how the structures are built around environments in corporate.

[00:08:24] Yeshwika Bahadur: And particularly the deal-making space, and then the other element of it, I think, is also idiosyncratic, and that’s the alignment of, but how much of this journey, and how much of it is uniquely

[00:08:35] Yeshwika Bahadur: my own story that, you know, just didn’t resonate anymore, to me. And I think those two truths

[00:08:43] Yeshwika Bahadur: I mean, I heard a beautiful saying once, which was, you know, there’s fact, and then there’s truth, and you have to make sure that you hold space for both. And, you know, there’s… it’s very intertwined, those two things, and… but we need to be able to hold both of them, because the both are true.

[00:08:59] Graham Stephen: Absolutely. I mean, just looking at your story briefly, you know, was there a particular moment… I mean, it’s not as though you, you know, you spent a year in this space. I mean, you spent 10 years in corporate, but was there a particular moment where you knew that you had to kind of

[00:09:14] Graham Stephen: You know, shift your perspective and step away, or was it a more gradual, shift in your mindset?

[00:09:23] Yeshwika Bahadur: I’m going to say both. There was… there wasn’t… there were times where I just… again, being very grateful to the opportunity I was given, and I think that speaks to a broader story, my systemic story, around an Indian woman being afforded opportunities, particularly being South African, you know, that was just…

[00:09:43] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, I was… I can’t say I was born free, because I technically wasn’t born free, but, I wasn’t far off. So, you know, in that… in that generation space, I’m, you know, just for the listeners, 34 years old, and there’s this element of…

[00:10:00] Yeshwika Bahadur: You know, feeling like… it was… I don’t want to say the word duty, but it’s like, you afforded such an important

[00:10:08] Yeshwika Bahadur: opportunity and honor to be in a space like this, that, you know, change it from the inside, you know? Why don’t you… why don’t you, like, have a different way of deal-making can be done, get more women involved in this space, get more people of color that can have their voices be heard and seen?

[00:10:28] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, there was… there was that sense and that feeling, and… and… and then the other side of it was also that element of, but, yes, if it’s not true to your nature, and it’s not true to…

[00:10:38] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, what… what is… what is the service and what is your Dharma? We call it Dharma, you know? Then, you know, maybe it’s… it’s to still, you know, fight for your change, and like, you know, make sure that the world is becoming a better place, and that we are holding space for many voices. But that can happen in a different space. It doesn’t necessarily happen… need to happen in corporate.

[00:11:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: And again, I just want to say there’s two parts to that, because that’s… I think that’s also how systems do change, because, I don’t want this to come across in any way that it just means, you know, we should just

[00:11:17] Yeshwika Bahadur: let, like, because this is how I think listeners might see it, or how I’ve seen it, is, okay, but then, if that’s the case, then we should just let corporates be run the same way that they’re being run.

[00:11:29] Yeshwika Bahadur: And I just… that’s just not leadership for me when I… when I see things being done in that particular manner, where we almost glorify

[00:11:40] Yeshwika Bahadur: the narcissists, or the, you know, psychopaths, if you want to call it, be so bold, and again, it’s… you can’t diagnose people

[00:11:48] Yeshwika Bahadur: in that way, I mean, I’m not a therapist, I don’t claim to be one, but if we are glorifying those attributes in our leadership, and I see that happen all too much and all too well in the world, then it becomes almost like this complacency that then the systems don’t need to change, and that we… we just…

[00:12:08] Yeshwika Bahadur: perpetuate cycles that just no longer serve us as humanity. I think we do need more empathetic leaders, we do need more compassionate leaders.

[00:12:17] Yeshwika Bahadur: I don’t even feel right saying compassionate leaders. I think leaders and leadership encompasses compassion. And yeah, but I’d really like to hear your views on it. I’ve spoken a lot here.

[00:12:31] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, you know, you talk about this sort of hyperproductivity that gets glamorized, you know, and I think in the sort of deal-making and investment banking world of high finance, it does… it’s almost like a badge of honor.

[00:12:44] Graham Stephen: you know, my business partner in the US, Kyle, often talks about he spent… he spent 10 years in New York, having won a green card from South Africa, arrived as a 21-year-old.

[00:12:55] Graham Stephen: Oh, wow. And by his early 30s, he was completely burnt out, you know, working literally from 7am until midnight every single day, you know, 7 days a week.

[00:13:08] Yeshwika Bahadur: And that’s living, Graham. You know, like, I think we think that that’s living. It speaks to your point around money. Like, that’s… you’re… you’re there, you know, but you’re almost walking dead, you know? Like, it’s not… you’re not actually…

[00:13:22] Yeshwika Bahadur: building out the life that… that you would leave. I wouldn’t imagine so, that Carl was doing, but you… you tell me.

[00:13:30] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think, I think it’s toxic, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s excellence, which is, is, you know, it’s, it’s disguised as excellence, but it’s not, you know, this, this notion, I think the fundamental idea is that busyness equals value.

[00:13:45] Graham Stephen: But I’ve got a slightly different take on that, and I think, you know, if you look at a lot of the creatives and people who’ve changed the world, there’s almost a degree… I mean, look, there’s nothing wrong with hard work, don’t get me wrong. There’s almost a degree of, like, if you’re slightly lazy or you procrastinate a little bit, it actually leads to better solutions.

[00:14:05] Graham Stephen: Because you mull over things, you brew over things, and when you’re in that state of just work, work, work, work, work, you never get that time to… to reflect.

[00:14:13] Yeshwika Bahadur: Well, that’s why.

[00:14:14] Graham Stephen: Kristen, the…

[00:14:15] Yeshwika Bahadur: Yes, I almost want to test when we say slightly procrastinate or laziness, like, that’s the… that’s the thinking I want to test. Why don’t we call that alignment? You know, it’s not like, why don’t we call that… that’s just a period of rest?

[00:14:29] Yeshwika Bahadur: You know, there’s… there’s enough. neuroscience coming out, and there’s enough, like, I mean, you know, and I don’t want the podcast to almost go in that direction, because that’s the explanation that we want sometimes as society. It needs to make scientific sense before we actually almost believe the lived experience. But the truth is, there are so many lived experiences coming out right now, saying.

[00:14:55] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, this is one story of Kyle, like, I’m sure… I’ve just… I know plenty. It’s… it’s… You, you know, you asked me on my journey and my story, and that’s…

[00:15:03] Yeshwika Bahadur: It’s been mine as well, you know, where it’s this idea of, like, asking for…

[00:15:10] Yeshwika Bahadur: a little bit of time on something, or asking, can we align? And you make another really good point, Graham, there around, this is not a mitigation of hard work at all. No, I fully believe in striving, healthily striving for excellence. We definitely need to be a society that is productive and does serve, you know? What I’m talking about here, and I think the conversation we’re having, is around

[00:15:34] Yeshwika Bahadur: When it gets to a point of. Too much, and we almost start using language of.

[00:15:41] Yeshwika Bahadur: coaxing and, like, you know, we’re almost timid and shy to just ask for a bit of a breather. And I just want to understand why we do that, you know, and I’m also very curious to hear your views.

[00:15:54] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think… I think you’re absolutely right, and you’re right, the language we use can become problematic in itself, you know, it’s almost a subconscious acceptance of the status quo, you know, and…

[00:16:05] Graham Stephen: You know, for a lot of entrepreneurs out there as well, you know, there’s this focus on hustle culture and all of that. I think it is changing.

[00:16:12] Graham Stephen: You know, and the other extreme also doesn’t work. You know, like, you know, if you can’t build a $10 million business, you know, sitting on a beach working 2 hours a day using AI agents, like, that’s somehow you’re inadequate. Equally, that view is… so somewhere in the middle, there has to be a balance. I think you call it harmony.

[00:16:32] Graham Stephen: And I firmly believe that as well, but I think the language we use has to change as well. You know, we need to be asking for forgiveness more than asking for permission. You know, I’ll use an example of, yeah, I’ve heard this in the investment banking world, it’s like.

[00:16:47] Graham Stephen: you know, something happens in the family, and, you know, the analyst sheepishly goes up to, you know, to the principal and says, well, would it be okay if I take, you know, half a day off to, you know, attend to a family matter?

[00:16:58] Graham Stephen: Actually, it should be the other way around. You should rather say, listen, I’ve got an important family matter that I’m dealing with, I am taking time off, and I’ll make sure my work’s up to date. You know, that’s a very different…

[00:17:09] Graham Stephen: framing of the same problem, and I think it starts there.

[00:17:12] Yeshwika Bahadur: 100%. And then that’s compassion. That example that you just provided there, I mean, such a beautiful one, that is compassion. And, you know, in my story and my journey, it just, it felt the lack of compassion. And, you know, there’s beautiful work being done by, you know, Dr. Kristin Neff around, you know, there’s… what does compassion mean? Like, intuitively, we know it, but to me, like, I want to use her definition because it’s… it just works for me, but it’s…

[00:17:37] Yeshwika Bahadur: You know, it’s kindness as one, it’s mindfulness is the other component, and it’s common humanity.

[00:17:45] Yeshwika Bahadur: And, you know, just looping back to previously what I’d said around, that’s what leaves a person feeling more empowered in a corporate setting or in a work setting, versus feeling exploited, is that if you treat someone with

[00:18:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: That common humanity, and you be mindful to a situation, and that there is this embedded kindness.

[00:18:08] Yeshwika Bahadur: then, you know, you’re gonna hit that productivity, you’re gonna hit those markers, you’re gonna build out a fantastic business, because, I mean, again, just connecting the dots around

[00:18:19] Yeshwika Bahadur: a business is people, it’s systems, it’s processes, it’s… it’s not just, you know, a valuation of… and Excel and numbers and… the numbers on the sheet

[00:18:30] Yeshwika Bahadur: inform what human beings are doing in the background. And you can have as much AI, but, you know, I mean, I don’t know now in the world, Graham, maybe there’s gonna be the robots taking over, but,

[00:18:43] Yeshwika Bahadur: Now, you know, we… we’re the ones that are, like, in control of our destinies and of our lives, and… and we’re the ones that are building out not only these businesses, but also how we…

[00:18:55] Yeshwika Bahadur: Build out systems and structures that… that move and… Can almost… not almost, that can change humanity.

[00:19:02] Graham Stephen: Absolutely. So we talk about that, and we titled this episode, Bringing Humanity Back into High Finance, and, you know, I think to some it might sound idealistic, but, like, let’s get practical. What is this… I used an example just now, but what does this look like in practice, in your mind, Yash?

[00:19:22] Yeshwika Bahadur: So, I think the example that you gave was great, Graham. It’s like, you know, when you have someone that has come to you, and there’s a problem, and there’s a dilemma, I… I look at, practically.

[00:19:33] Yeshwika Bahadur: what mindfulness means, and what common humanity and kindness is that you’re actively listening to the employees in your business. You’re actively listening to your clients. You’re… you know, you… there’s a conversation that’s happening, and…

[00:19:48] Yeshwika Bahadur: While that dialogue is taking place, you’re… You’re empathizing with the person on the other side as well, and they… and…

[00:19:57] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, there’s… I think there’s a multitude of ways that that can happen, and I fully appreciate in, you know, the example that I’ve given here around active listening. You’d need another person on the other side also actively listening, so maybe I can give you an example that’s… of what you can do

[00:20:15] Yeshwika Bahadur: within your own, and it doesn’t even involve having someone else in that conversation, is that

[00:20:21] Yeshwika Bahadur: for me, it’s finding alignment to an attunement in what is… how does your nervous system react to certain things? When someone… when there is a…

[00:20:32] Yeshwika Bahadur: problem, or what we say in corporate is a fire needs to be put out. Triage. Is there really a fire that needs to be put out, or are we just working on such high, energy levels and volatility levels that, you know, we’re… we’re not regulated enough to just detect, is this a major problem?

[00:20:52] Yeshwika Bahadur: or not.

[00:20:55] Graham Stephen: So everything is a crisis, you’re constantly in that crisis management, but I mean, I guess what you’re saying as well is things like empathy and compassion.

[00:21:03] Graham Stephen: actually a commercial skill. Now, if I guess you were to ask any CFA or chartered accountant, I mean, whether they learnt that at finance school or at business school, I guess the answer would be a resounding no, right?

[00:21:18] Yeshwika Bahadur: Well, that’s the… that’s part of the… the problem, I think, because these… the CFA qualification and the CASA designation, in my mind, that’s a leadership qualification. And like I said, a leader has compassionate and empathetic qualities. That is… that is what makes a leader. There is…

[00:21:36] Yeshwika Bahadur: If you don’t have that skill, and if you do not have the ability to do that, then…

[00:21:42] Yeshwika Bahadur: I… I cannot see you as a leader. And again, that brings me to my story of wanting to… not wanting of leaving, corporate and… and that… an environment, because an environment in that space just seemed to not only glorify the hyperproductivity, but it also seemed to glorify these

[00:22:01] Yeshwika Bahadur: types of inverted commas leaders. And in my mind, that’s just not what leadership Yes. And again, I think we look at compassion as, like, a very fluffy word, but, you know, it involves… you know, because people don’t necessarily want to be vulnerable with it, we don’t want to…

[00:22:19] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, just have a space of being almost honest, you know, because I think after this conversation, I’m gonna have a whole bunch of vulnerability hangover, Graham. I’ve said a lot, but…

[00:22:32] Yeshwika Bahadur: that is part of the journey. It’s progress, not perfection, you know? It’s… it’s… it’s taking a step back and saying, okay.

[00:22:42] Yeshwika Bahadur: I… I understand where we are in history right now, but do we want to continue

[00:22:50] Yeshwika Bahadur: A legacy in this world that glorifies the same leadership style, or that… or is just… we’re just not…

[00:22:59] Yeshwika Bahadur: moving society forward, and that’s really what happened for me, per se, and I don’t think it’s… I am just a unique individual in that story. I think there are a lot more people out there that are also

[00:23:11] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, looking for something different, and questioning whether they are leaders, and questioning… because that’s the reverse of this as well, Graham. The reverse is that there are… you know, there’s a beautiful documentary, I still have to watch it, but I’ve watched some of the, you know, content online around Jacinda Arden, who is the Prime Minister of New Zealand, and…

[00:23:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: You know, what she… and how she talks about compassion, how her leadership, and how her, you know,

[00:23:39] Yeshwika Bahadur: sorry, I’m just going blank on words, but how she got into becoming the Prime Minister, and what people said about her, and, you know, I just…

[00:23:47] Yeshwika Bahadur: I wonder what it… what the world would be like if she wasn’t, you know, if she didn’t become Prime Minister, because for me and my personal journey, she embodied and showed me what was possible, as a woman, what was possible as someone who looked like me and talked like me and got… and does get quite, you know.

[00:24:05] Graham Stephen: Hmm.

[00:24:05] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, like, I feel very strongly about this, you know? And, like, it’s almost like we take for granted our feelings in spaces of leadership, because we…

[00:24:16] Yeshwika Bahadur: it’s, you know, you be seen as too emotional, or you’re getting… it’s… or that’s not… we need to bring the conversation back now. It needs to… it needs to, you know, it needs to fit into…

[00:24:26] Yeshwika Bahadur: some type of box, and I just don’t think that box exists.

[00:24:32] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think… I think you’re absolutely right, and I think as society, we… we… we don’t learn from our mistakes, you know, but, you know, also, like, sensationalism sells, you know, you look at… what are the movies that sell? The Wolf of Wall Street, you know, I mean, even though he’s…

[00:24:44] Graham Stephen: the anti-hero, everyone, you know, celebrates him, you know, but, you know, I don’t know if they’ve made a movie about Warren Buffett yet, but, you know, he’s

[00:24:53] Graham Stephen: successful capitalist, but, you know, I guess his story isn’t as dramatic as the Wolf of Wall Street, you know, and that’s the kind of behavior that people, you know, put out there and celebrate, and yeah, sure, there are some lessons out of that, but I think it misses the point, largely.

[00:25:09] Yeshwika Bahadur: No, of course, and I think you touched on another really good point. It’s not that I am, you know, you’re dismantling capitalism, or I am saying that, you know, that there isn’t beautiful aspects of certain systems. I’m just saying

[00:25:21] Yeshwika Bahadur: Perfect example that you said there, Warren Buffett versus a Wolf of Wall Street, you know, mentality. There’s, you know, and I’m not saying every single thing

[00:25:30] Yeshwika Bahadur: I mean, I obviously do not know Warren Buffett personally, you know, so everything… I do not know everything that he’s done, you know? But the truth is, is like, how do we repair? How do we then make mistakes, and then come back from them, and…

[00:25:44] Yeshwika Bahadur: versus what you were saying now, glorifying a Wolf of Wall Street type of character, and saying, okay, well, that’s just the status quo. Those two things are very different from one another, and I think that level of discernment is what we need as a society, and what we need as humanity, is…

[00:26:01] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, sometimes there’s words that get said, and it becomes like, oh, that’s, you know, too big thinking, or that’s, like, gonna dismantle a system. No, no, we need a hush, or we need to put this stuff away, but it’s…

[00:26:13] Yeshwika Bahadur: That’s the only way we’re going to grow as humanity and as people, is that if we actually actively listen to one another, and we…

[00:26:22] Yeshwika Bahadur: You know, we… we hear what one another are saying without… what I said from the beginning, I’m going to reiterate again. There is fact and there is truth, and we need to be able to hold space for both.

[00:26:33] Graham Stephen: Or both, yeah. So, I mean, you talk a bit in some of your writing about, you know, concentric and compassionate leadership, so I want to just explore this a little bit, Yasha. What does that mean to you? You know, you know, we obviously see leaders as somebody at the top of the pile, but I think this talks to something different. You want to drill down into that a bit?

[00:26:54] Yeshwika Bahadur: Yeah, of course. You know, again, I don’t claim to have all the answers, Graham. You know, this is just my own personal experience, and I really want to say that on record, because that is leadership. That is the embodiment of leadership, is also to show that

[00:27:12] Yeshwika Bahadur: have humility. I don’t know everything. I’ve seen, I’ve experienced some stuff. I’ve had 10 years in investment banking, so there is experience, there’s…

[00:27:21] Yeshwika Bahadur: how I would like to see a world be, and how people interact with one another, and I don’t claim to have all the answers and know I’m right. And for me, that is a key component of leadership.

[00:27:32] Yeshwika Bahadur: for me, it is saying, you know what, I think I was wrong in that situation. Team, what’s… what’s an idea? Like, where can we, you know, what’s the next

[00:27:42] Yeshwika Bahadur: step that you guys think is the… is a way forward. That’s… again, that’s that act of listening and that… and that conversation, and it keeps bringing me back to this word, and

[00:27:56] Yeshwika Bahadur: I suppose a little bit of hesitation from my side to go deep into it, because again, I’m… I’m not the expert on it, but it’s around vulnerability, and it’s… you know, and there’s many things that can be said around vulnerability. A good, concentric leader shows vulnerability, and…

[00:28:12] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, there’s… there’s a lot of… there’s still a lot more work, I think, that needs to be done around vulnerability, from an explanation point of view. I understand it from alignment, I understand it from my lived experience, but it’s a very difficult thing to give as a talking point or a…

[00:28:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: not a talking point, we can talk about it for days, I think. It’s… it’s the… how do we embody it that that’s what I want? Like, I would…

[00:28:40] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, I’m not… You know, in some places, I’m not that high a power, I’m not that… you… you feel in yourself

[00:28:47] Yeshwika Bahadur: that… it’s that calling, it’s that intuition of, this is the time I need to speak up now. This is the time I need to show up for my team, you know? It’s not… concentric leadership is also not this idea where, okay, you…

[00:29:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: there’s not direction, you know? Like, I fear that sometimes we also think that concentric leadership is, if we listen to everyone’s point of view, then we’re not going to have any direct… no, it’s actively listening.

[00:29:14] Yeshwika Bahadur: Can I say something? It’s… it’s that the world needs more people that…

[00:29:21] Yeshwika Bahadur: open their eyes, and that can see things, you know, and that can see wrongdoings, or that can see, you know, what, good ways of leadership are. The world needs more people that listen better, you know, that open their ears more.

[00:29:33] Yeshwika Bahadur: And they definitely need more people that speak out, and speak out more. But what we feel like we’re lacking is that all of that is meaningless and fruitless if the world doesn’t have enough

[00:29:44] Yeshwika Bahadur: Or more people that are able to open their hearts more. Because…

[00:29:48] Graham Stephen: I think that’s so powerful, you know, it is… you know, I think all these stereotypes, you know.

[00:29:54] Graham Stephen: The way that these systems work is, you know, vulnerability’s weakness, and

[00:30:00] Graham Stephen: you know, the loudest voice in the room wins, you know, all these sort of things that we… that we grow up in are just force-fed at us. The reality is… is actually completely different, you know? If you just look at this world now, with all the social media and marketing and that, it’s like.

[00:30:15] Graham Stephen: Loudest voice, loudest voice, and the reality, that just becomes noise eventually. So I think if you get it right, things like vulnerability.

[00:30:23] Graham Stephen: being the quiet voice that speaks up at the right time, being available to listen to your team, is actually a superpower. It does make you stand out, but we need more people

[00:30:36] Graham Stephen: to feel safe, I guess, to be able to… to do that. Else you just keep perpetuating, I guess, what is a broken system in many ways.

[00:30:46] Yeshwika Bahadur: 100%. And safety is such an important conversation, you know, because some people don’t even realize that they’re not safe. Like, you talk about physical safety, and there’s also psychological safety, you know, and there’s… if…

[00:30:59] Yeshwika Bahadur: If you… if you… if you believe that this is what you deserve, if you believe that this is an environment that, you know, is… it’ll always be this way, then nothing really changes in that, and so you’re… you’re not psychologically safe, but the only way to dismantle that is to find alignment. And, I mean, there are beautiful practices on that as well. I mean, just to close off on what you asked around concentric leadership, concentric leadership also starts within

[00:31:25] Yeshwika Bahadur: And it starts with yourself, and to find alignment practices such as meditation, practices such as contemplative thinking, because again, I think there’s this idea of meditation as you sit in an ashram, or you sit, like, in a

[00:31:39] Yeshwika Bahadur: sauna, which is like a sitting pose, you know, and then you’re, you know, you almost, like, there’s a perfect way to do it, and no, a meditation is actually walking in nature. Meditation is, you know, just connecting again, connecting again with people, and finding that connection.

[00:31:56] Yeshwika Bahadur: That is the best way to explain or embody that vulnerability.

[00:32:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: Is to connect.

[00:32:03] Graham Stephen: 100%. I mean, it’s a fascinating discussion, and you know, I guess we could go on for hours having this chat. I want to deal with one last segment, and I’d love to get your view on this. So, we’ve spoken a bit about, kind of.

[00:32:18] Graham Stephen: you know, the world that you come out of, sort of investment banking, deal-making, and that. But right now, there’s almost a parallel shift that’s happening, and that’s a sort of digital shift in the AI era, okay? So we’re moving into a world where everything’s about digital transformation. It’s AI, it’s automation.

[00:32:35] Graham Stephen: In that context, okay, what does bringing humanity back mean to you?

[00:32:42] Yeshwika Bahadur: Well, that’s what the… all the more reason to… to focus on intuitive practices and bring your intuition back into.

[00:32:52] Yeshwika Bahadur: all spaces. Spaces, not… yeah, particularly in a business setting, because now is the time, now is more than ever.

[00:33:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: we need… better data. that… because if you think about artificial intelligence, Graham, it’s… it’s only as good as the data. I mean, I’m an investment banker, so we’ve heard this term a lot of times, GEICO. Garbage in, garbage out. Like, all the time. Like, in a valuation, in a model, it’s like, if you give me garbage into this valuation, you’re gonna get garbage out. I mean, we’ve caveated with the management teams as well. We’re like, you have to give me

[00:33:28] Yeshwika Bahadur: you’re the best information that you have, and the same is true with artificial intelligence. If we’re… if we’re not attuned, if there’s no alignment, and we’re not putting in

[00:33:39] Yeshwika Bahadur: Informed data into that model.

[00:33:42] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:33:43] Yeshwika Bahadur: then all we’re getting out, again, it’s what this entire podcast, you know, seems to… I love this golden thread that this podcast seems to have naturally found its way to grow, but it is that. It’s that golden thread to… we’re not gonna… we’re actually going to lose humanity. And you can have a whole bunch of people still alive and walking around, and… but that’s not humanity. And I… and I really… I really want that point to be stressed.

[00:34:08] Yeshwika Bahadur: That’s not what makes us human. Our… we’re human beings. the being is important. We’re not human doings, and that’s not to discredit service and sever and, you know, putting out there

[00:34:20] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, healthily striving for excellence, and good work product, and good businesses, and… and of course, you know, abundance. That’s what money is, you know? Like, I… it may have come across in the beginning, now that I’m just listening to myself back, that you almost have to pick between energy or money. No, not at all.

[00:34:37] Yeshwika Bahadur: like, there’s vibrational frequency that money has as well, and that there is this abundance is both financial prosperity and energy prosperity, and it… and it does matter. I think as human beings, we think it doesn’t, but it does matter how you make your money, and yeah, that’s… that’s what I want to say.

[00:34:57] Graham Stephen: I think that’s important, you know, just, we can’t just, you know, as I say in this AI world, people are desperate for human connection. I’ll share a quick anecdote with, with bizval. When we started, we built an algorithmic.

[00:35:09] Yeshwika Bahadur: Valuation Platform.

[00:35:11] Graham Stephen: And our original idea was that we would make it available, and business owners could value their business professionally, investment banking in their pocket.

[00:35:20] Graham Stephen: You know, in a short amount of time. And it’s… that’s… it failed in the sense that people actually didn’t want to do it themselves. They actually wanted to engage a human being. They wanted to engage somebody who

[00:35:35] Graham Stephen: actually understood the pain and the challenges and the emotional commitment to building a business. They didn’t just want to see a number that was right on a screen. They actually wanted to talk about how they got to that and what went into it. And, so we changed our model, where we basically said every single engagement with us, you’ll have an engagement with a human being.

[00:35:55] Graham Stephen: And it’s fascinating, because.

[00:35:57] Yeshwika Bahadur: You can see it.

[00:35:57] Graham Stephen: There’s something about that psyche which is… which is important. We had to change our pricing model, we had to change a whole bunch of things, but it really was only then that we started to get real resonance and traction, as opposed to just being an algorithm.

[00:36:10] Yeshwika Bahadur: It’s the interconnectedness that we crave as human beings. It’s that interconnectedness, and when you… and an AI model just, like I said, it just feeds… only a set amount of data gets

[00:36:23] Yeshwika Bahadur: pulled into that. And again, it’s the loudest voice in the room that will get pulled from an AI, so it’s not surprising at all, but that’s very interesting. So, I’m glad you changed.

[00:36:34] Graham Stephen: Absolutely. Yes, I mean, this conversation is fascinating. I’m sure we’re going to have to get you back on for another episode.

[00:36:44] Graham Stephen: And I think it’s just a bit of a teaser, you know, in terms of… in terms of, you know, how we… how we look at the world differently, and I think we have to have different views and different perspectives, and not just keep repeating the same narrative. But we’re going to do something fun.

[00:36:57] Graham Stephen: to wrap up the podcast. We call it our rapid-fire round, so it’s a few questions, don’t overthink it, and we do it with all our guests. So, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions, answer that comes to mind, and quick answers. You up for that?

[00:37:15] Yeshwika Bahadur: Let’s do it.

[00:37:17] Graham Stephen: Okay, so first question, coffee or wine?

[00:37:20] Yeshwika Bahadur: Wine. And I went quiet.

[00:37:27] Yeshwika Bahadur: I think it’s because I’m gonna need some wine after this podcast. I’m already feeling the vulnerability hangover, right?

[00:37:34] Graham Stephen: It depends on the time of the day. As long as it’s not wine at 8am in the morning, then you’re probably safe.

[00:37:38] Yeshwika Bahadur: 5PM somewhere, Graham. It’s 5PM somewhere in the world, okay? It’s bizval Global, remember? That’s fine.

[00:37:47] Graham Stephen: Okay, are you a morning person or a midnight thinker?

[00:37:51] Yeshwika Bahadur: I’m a little bit of both, but Midnight came to mind first.

[00:37:55] Graham Stephen: Okay. What’s… or who, who or what is your favorite poem or poet?

[00:38:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: Oh, I love… I don’t have names right now, but, poets from the Rajasthani, the Hindustani, like, Indian classical music, Hindustani music is beautiful to me, so…

[00:38:17] Yeshwika Bahadur: That would be an answer.

[00:38:19] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. A few more questions. If finance were a poem, okay, well, if you don’t have a title right now, what would the title be, if you had to make up a title for a finance poem?

[00:38:33] Yeshwika Bahadur: For finance poem, Graham. Oh, wow, you’ve caught me off guard there.

[00:38:36] Graham Stephen: I’m trusting your creativity on the spot here, Ayesha.

[00:38:39] Yeshwika Bahadur: Oh, wow, no, no, you can’t test creativity, Graham. I thought that’s what we got from this podcast. There’s no testing here.

[00:38:47] Graham Stephen: Yes, for.

[00:38:48] Yeshwika Bahadur: No, I… oh gosh, no. I don’t know, I don’t know.

[00:38:52] Graham Stephen: But we’ll come back to that. What’s the best piece of leadership advice that you’ve ever received?

[00:39:02] Yeshwika Bahadur: Back yourself. Back yourself. Back your knowledge, back what… back your… your viewpoints.

[00:39:10] Graham Stephen: I love that, yeah, too often we, like, as you say, we have to ask for permission, and we’re taught to be humble, but actually put yourself out there, you know, and it doesn’t, you know, it’s not arrogance, it’s just be confident and believe in you.

[00:39:23] Yeshwika Bahadur: Yeah, it’s to be bold, not brazen, you know, but it’s… yeah, and it’s to also understand that for some people, your boldness is going to be seen as brazenness, and you can’t… you can’t…

[00:39:34] Yeshwika Bahadur: infer, influence, you can’t… you’re… what anyone else is going to think. You have to just show up authentically. So, that’s why I like that advice.

[00:39:44] Graham Stephen: Okay, two more questions. Ocean or city lights?

[00:39:48] Yeshwika Bahadur: Ocean. There’s a calling to the ocean, always. Water sports, anything, I mean, avid scuba diver, love it, so always gonna be the ocean.

[00:39:58] Graham Stephen: You’re living in the wrong place if you’re in Josie, so…

[00:40:01] Yeshwika Bahadur: I know, I know, Graham. There’s a calling to Cape Town, I must say. But yeah, it’s…

[00:40:09] Graham Stephen: Last piece of… if you could give one piece of advice, or if you could say one thing to every young professional in finance now, whether they, you know, doing their articles, or they’re still studying, what would that be?

[00:40:23] Yeshwika Bahadur: It would be to believe in yourself. It… and… it’s not… it’s not cliched advice. You know, I think I hear a lot of people say that’s very cliched. It’s not, you know, the word believe. So here’s a little bit of my creativity that’s gonna come out now, Graham. I’m gonna make up for that beginning question. If you look at the word believe, the word believe has lie in the middle of it. And so it’s like, okay, is this all a lie, right? Okay?

[00:40:49] Yeshwika Bahadur: It also has the word live in it as well. So, like, you know, just the living, and…

[00:40:56] Yeshwika Bahadur: you know, maybe believe the lies, whatever you want to infer from it. But, you know, there’s also another way to look and infer what lie means. It means surrender. Just let something lie in some spaces. It’s that acceptance, you know? And then the other word is also to be live. It is also, though, when you surrender and you choose that acceptance, make sure that you’re doing that

[00:41:18] Yeshwika Bahadur: in full aliveness of that. I think that so beautifully ties into what… not only the serenity prayer, but also into when do we let things and accept them to as they are, because

[00:41:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: It’s just something we cannot control. When do we have to change our… have the courage to change our behaviors, to change systems, the ways we are, because it’s just no longer serving us? And that’s courage, and then the wisdom to know the difference between the two. And that wisdom is…

[00:41:48] Yeshwika Bahadur: Above my pre… pre-grade gram, that’s not high, of course, but I… I do. The younger generation really, really believe and go after what is in your heart as well, and what you do believe.

[00:42:03] Yeshwika Bahadur: and stand true to. And I think that’s what the younger generation actually has, right? So, in fact, I would be surprised if some of this younger generation told me, yeah, we are doing that, you know, it’s just more of the older generations that need to come back, need to unlearn a lot of the things we’ve been taught and been…

[00:42:19] Yeshwika Bahadur: And learned, and to really go back to some of those childhood dreams, or those childhood

[00:42:25] Yeshwika Bahadur: I don’t even want to call them fantasies, but those childhood longings, because that’s really what’s gonna…

[00:42:31] Yeshwika Bahadur: Change the world.

[00:42:32] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. Yes, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. It’s been grounding, it’s been inspiring, and maybe a little bit poetic, so thank you for being on the show today.

[00:42:42] Yeshwika Bahadur: Oh, no, it’s been an absolute pleasure, Graham, thank you. This doesn’t even become possible with someone that doesn’t hold space and isn’t a true leader in that sense, and I promise you, Graham is not paying me to say that.

[00:42:55] Yeshwika Bahadur: I truly, truly believe that, so… so thank you as well.

[00:42:59] Graham Stephen: Thanks, Yash. We’re gonna have to get you back, and you know, as our listeners know, bizval, we believe every story, every valuation, at its core.

[00:43:06] Graham Stephen: is a human story. So if you enjoyed this episode, please contact Yeshuvika on LinkedIn.

[00:43:12] Graham Stephen: You know, her words are also worth reading, so check out her creative work as she bridges the world of art and analytics. And you can connect with us, as always, at www.bizvelglobal.com, where business meets meaning. Until next time, stay curious, stay kind, and keep bringing humanity back into whatever you do.

---

END OF TRANSCRIPT