#64 The quiet storm: Building grit, growth, and global impact with Michelle Janse van Rensburg

TRANSCRIPT: THE bizval PODCAST
Guest: Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg, Founder and CEO — NYMAC Global
Host: Graham Stephen, CEO and Co-Founder, bizval

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[00:00:22] Graham Stephen: Okay, there we go. Welcome to the bizval Podcast, where we go behind the spreadsheets and uncover the stories that shape value.

[00:00:31] Graham Stephen: I’m Graham Stephen, the CEO of bizvalglobal.com, and today we’re joined by a powerhouse, somebody who’s built, rebuilt, and kept showing up, even when the business world tried to burn her out. She’s the founder and CEO of NYMAC Global.

[00:00:46] Graham Stephen: A strategic technology advisory firm, helping accountants and business owners scale smarter.

[00:00:52] Graham Stephen: She’s also the voice behind Confessions of a Quiet Storm. It’s a blog that’s equal parts truth, grit, and grace, and I’m sure she’ll give you the details of that a little bit later, but Michelle, welcome, and thanks for joining us here today.

[00:01:05] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Oh, good to be here, Graham. Thank you so much for inviting me on.

[00:01:09] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. I know that the clocks have… well, you’ve had a week to adjust to the clocks going back in the UK, but, how’s that transition going for you?

[00:01:18] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I think most people are late for work on the first Monday after the transition on a Sunday, but we’re adjusting.

[00:01:26] Graham Stephen: Cool. Well, let’s start at the beginning, Michelle, and, you know, before NYMAC, before, you know, we’ll get into about your background, before triathlons and burnout and all of that stuff, who is Michelle Jansa von Rensberg?

[00:01:40] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: It’s quite a loaded question, Graham, but I would say, if I’ve got to try and think back, it would probably be running barefoot on the salt pans in Botswana. Always dreaming of having my own business.

[00:01:55] Graham Stephen: So you started, I mean, you started as basically a country girl, by the sounds of things. Where did you grow up, Michelle?

[00:02:04] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I spent the first… first number of years, probably about 6 or 7 years in Botswana, in a very, very small town by the name of, Sora Town, and then moved to South Africa, probably about mid to late primary school. Spent some time in Gating, and then ended up matriculating in KwaZulu-Natal.

[00:02:23] Graham Stephen: And now you’re living in Wales. I mean, you’re a true global citizen, aren’t you?

[00:02:29] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Yes, I was in a number of schools growing up. My dad did some contract work, and yes, as an adult, I’ve also been around, also moved around.

[00:02:38] Graham Stephen: Yeah. So, Michelle, tell me a little bit about, sort of, growing up, you know, I mean, you… as you say, you started barefoot on the salt plains, basically, and now you’re running, you know, an organization that works across businesses.

[00:02:54] Graham Stephen: you know, tell me about some of those background stories that sort of shaped you. What were some of your hobbies growing up? Touched on that in the intro, you got a bit of a competitive streak. Maybe you can give us a little bit about a background in terms of, you know, what are some of the things that you did that have shaped you into who you are today?

[00:03:12] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So growing up, Graham, I did a lot of sports, probably more sport than what I should have, because it meant that my academics were never really on point. I was just kind of scraping by, wasn’t much of an academic.

[00:03:23] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So yeah, I basically lived in the pool, did competitive swimming, and, I often tell the story about my dad having quite a strong, short military stint.

[00:03:34] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So my house was… was very much structured and ordered. There was no participation medals, there was… there was no time, sort of, for any bullshit. Sorry for the language.

[00:03:44] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: in the house, and I think, you know, growing up doing competitive sports, and obviously being raised by a dad like that.

[00:03:50] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: the… you know, you, definitely very competitive, but I’m mostly competitive with myself than what I am with, you know, with anybody else. And then mom is also, very, very strong-willed. She’s the mothership of the household.

[00:04:06] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And I always say to people, you know, you knew… I grew up in a bilingual household, but you really knew you were in trouble when mom told you to humble up, you know, when she started… she started reprimanding you in Zulu, then you knew you were in trouble.

[00:04:20] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Or your name was broken up into syllables, you know?

[00:04:26] Graham Stephen: So you’ve clearly got a competitive streak, I mean, you know, competitive swimmer, you’ve done a few Ironmans, but you’re also a CEO and a coach to other people, you know, so you’ve spoken about your background in terms of that sort of competitive nature, but can you maybe share a little bit

[00:04:46] Graham Stephen: About, you know, what that competitive streak means for you, you know, both from a, you know, a positive perspective, and then maybe some of the sort of negative sides to that that you’ve had to work through over the years.

[00:04:59] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I’ve spent a number of years trying to get away from the negative side of it, or, you know, just sort of my own personal journey, but I think the positive side of it is that you never really quit.

[00:05:11] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, it’s sort of that grit that just keeps you going, and I think to just constantly be a better human. You know, I always say to people, I’ll be very, you know, very embarrassed if people are judging me by who I was 10 years ago, you know, when I started the business. And, you know, I think that competitive nature, not just sort of in sport and things, but it constantly drives you to just be a better human, and to do better in the business, and

[00:05:34] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: to constantly gain. You know, my team at NOMAC, feel that, fortunately and unfortunately, that constantly, you know, how can we up our game? How can we up our game? So I think the positives of it is that you’re constantly improving.

[00:05:48] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And I think, you know, as long as we’re… like I said, as long as what you’re striving to be better in life, you know, you’ll always go forward. And I think the negative of it is that it’s quite tiring. It’s really quite tiring. You know, there’s… there’s never just a day or a week, or a something that… that there isn’t something that’s being competitive. You know, did I run better than yesterday?

[00:06:09] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: did I get more done today than what I did yesterday? You know, there’s always something that’s popping up.

[00:06:15] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and you know, as you say, you’ve got a sort of A-type competitive personality that’s striving for more, and it’s trying to do better, and I guess that’s largely what drives the world forward in terms of business and entrepreneurship and all of those sorts of things.

[00:06:30] Graham Stephen: And it works really well, I guess, until it doesn’t. You know, and I guess that’s the sort of vulnerable space we’re going to go into now, you know. So in some of your writings and your blogs, you know, you talk about confessions of a quiet storm.

[00:06:45] Graham Stephen: You know, and where that competitiveness got you to a point where some mornings it was just…

[00:06:51] Graham Stephen: you know, difficult to get out of bed. You know, that constant drive for more, and you kind of hit a block, I guess, where you had to redefine some of that success. So can you talk a little bit about that, Michelle? I know sometimes it’s not easy to, you know, to kind of get vulnerable like that, but what triggered some of that reflection for you?

[00:07:11] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I burnt out when I’d just started the business, so I was maybe about a year and a half, two years in, and what happened is I was sleeping 90 minutes to 3 hours a night.

[00:07:22] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: literally continuously, you know, not just for a week or a couple of days, that’s literally what I was doing continuously. I’d been through that stage in my personal life, and, you know, that’s when I found triathlon, got an incredible coach.

[00:07:34] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And that just kind of kept me sane through all the personal things I was going through. But also, I was determined to make my own business work, and it got to a point where I just, you know, realized one morning that I can’t get up. And, I ended up sleeping, like, 15 hours a day for a number of months.

[00:07:52] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And me being me, I went to the doctors, I went to any sort of doctor you can think of. you know, from homeopaths to GPs to gynecologists, any specialist I could get, I was seeing, and I was, like, trying to throw the textbook at it, you know, having a number of blood tests done, and everybody came back with the same result. They were like, well, you know, this is, this is burnout. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, we can, you know, you can take two weeks off, you’re not going to recover. And I remember it taking 3 to 6 months for

[00:08:19] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: for me to recover, and I’d just started the business, so I had no downtime. I had nobody in my corner, I was running on my own, so I was literally, like, working, and I’d come home, and I’d fall almost, like, face flat on the bed, with my makeup on, earrings, heels, clothes, everything, and I’d wake up, like, 15 hours later.

[00:08:37] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And then get out and shower and take the day again. So, there weren’t many people in my life at the stage, you know, that knew that I was going through it, because you just gotta kind of show up, right? Have another cup of coffee and show up. And, I remember… I remember being 6 months in, one morning in the gym, and realizing, like, I actually feel human again.

[00:08:58] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And then, probably about a year, year and a half later, I was very close to hitting, you know, hit burnout again, but not to that extent. You know, luckily recognized the signs quite early.

[00:09:11] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But it does, it does sort of shape your perspective in terms of what is, you know, what is a healthy balance and what isn’t.

[00:09:19] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and I guess, you know, it’s something that, you know, is very often hard to recognize, because

[00:09:27] Graham Stephen: You don’t see the signs until it kind of hits you in the face, as you say. You know, you have that moment where you kind of collapse on the bed.

[00:09:34] Graham Stephen: And, you know, I think it hits home for a lot of founders, you know, this sort of hustle culture and working harder, and that is… you know, it’s often celebrated. You know, if you’re not… if you’re not part of the 5 o’clock club, you’re not doing it right. But I guess as you get older and wiser and that you realize that

[00:09:53] Graham Stephen: it’s not always that, you know, that sort of pursuit of, or sort of success and ambition and that has got a bit of a dark side, and there’s a better way, right? You know, so you now working with a lot of business owners and founders and that. Tell me, you know.

[00:10:10] Graham Stephen: How have you been able to, kind of, relate your experiences to now how you’re engaging with other founders and owners who, you know, may be going through some of those same sort of challenges, or you see the warning signs from the outside looking in. How do you approach that?

[00:10:26] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: It’s a difficult one, because, you know, it’s one of those things that you kind of need your own conviction on it. You need to go through it yourself, but that being said, like Graham, I also don’t subscribe to the three-day work week.

[00:10:39] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, I don’t subscribe to that at all. Like, I think you do still need a graft hard, and you do still need to grind, you know, to get where you need to be, but I think sleep is the one that you shouldn’t neglect. And that doesn’t mean you need 9 hours sleep every night. You know, you can… like, I function really well on 6 hours.

[00:10:56] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But I still think that one shouldn’t, shouldn’t move away from the hard work and the grind, because, like, it’s ultimately still necessary. And I think with business owners, what I always say is, whatever you’re focusing on, make sure it actually moves the needle forward.

[00:11:12] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Because I’ve been there for, like, I was there for way too long, where it’s like, it’s got to be done my way, you know, and my way’s the right way. And I’d get so involved with the team, and in the detail, and, you know, find myself micromanaging, not because they needed it, but because I needed it.

[00:11:28] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: It gave me a sense of control, you know, it gave me a sense of purpose, and that’s what often leads to burnout, is that you’re trying to do so many things, and half of the things you actually don’t need to do or shouldn’t be doing. And I know, you know, there’s that thing of delegate this and outsource that, and you know, we all know that, but.

[00:11:46] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:11:46] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: part reality is, is how many of us are actually doing that, and when you do do that, I mean, we often see it with businesses, especially in the accounting firms that have the juniors coming in. When you do do that, how do you make sure that the work going out is actually still quality, right?

[00:12:02] Graham Stephen: Right.

[00:12:02] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: really say, like, when you as a business owner are doing something, like, are you actually moving the needle forward? You know, whether it’s in terms of business development, or growth in the business, or whether it’s actually just ensuring that the quality of work that’s going out, you know, is up to standard, and also just keeps improving.

[00:12:20] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Because we’re also dealing with… with a culture of instant gratification. You know, what’s good… what’s good enough for your clients this month isn’t going to be good enough for them in three months’ time, with this, you know, the way that, technology’s evolving.

[00:12:33] Graham Stephen: Yep.

[00:12:33] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Yeah, I think there’s so many gems in that, you know, it’s like neither extremity’s right, you know? You know, working 24, 23-hour days and getting an hour’s sleep, or, you know, those sort of memes where the guys, you know, if you’re not running a business 2 hours a week on a beach in the Bahamas with a, you know, cocktail in hand, you’re also doing it wrong, you know, it’s…

[00:12:54] Graham Stephen: It’s… neither of those extremities are right. Building a business is hard, it does take hard work, but I think the key point you mentioned is around focusing on the right things. Burnout often comes from focusing on the wrong things and trying to do too many things all at the same time. And I guess…

[00:13:13] Graham Stephen: you kind of went through that transition. You spoke a little bit about getting involved with triathlon and all of that, so how did… how did that help you? What about that helped you kind of find your rhythm again? You know, so what were some of the things about that sort of training and that actually helped you, I guess, learn to focus and shut out all the noise?

[00:13:33] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Yes, triathlon helped me in so many different ways, and I think, just to be clear, I was never a competing triathleen, because I was obviously building the business, and you know, my training was quite inconsistent at best.

[00:13:45] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But I think just having that goal, you know, that’s something else that you have to do today, because you’ve got a coach that’s expecting this of you, that’s not work.

[00:13:56] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:13:56] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, a hard, solid commitment that’s not work. And then, obviously, I mean, the endorphins and everything else that goes with that is amazing, but it was just because, like, you know, I can become quite fixated on a goal.

[00:14:09] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So…

[00:14:10] Graham Stephen: down here.

[00:14:10] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And that’s… that’s what happened when I burnt out, is that I’d end up… you know, my laptop would be in bed with me, like, literally right next to me. You know, the minute I’m… I’m… actually can’t keep my eyes open anymore, that’s when you’d sort of turn around and go to sleep. Whereas the minute.

[00:14:23] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:14:24] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: that’s something else that you can just focus on, which in my world was triathlon. It was a healthy fixation, I think, because obviously it’s fitness and sport, but it just gives you that.

[00:14:33] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:14:33] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Other commitment that’s not work, that kind of forces that… that balance.

[00:14:39] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I think that’s so powerful, is kind of having those sort of, as you say, things that can almost switch your mind off from the stress. But also, I think you touched on something important there. You had a coach, or an accountability partner.

[00:14:53] Graham Stephen: You know, so somebody that could actually help you along that journey is also an important part of that, and I’m sure we’ll get back to some of that discussion a little bit later, but…

[00:15:00] Graham Stephen: You know, I’ve started with the burnout phase, and often… you know, it’s a difficult place to start, but I want to kind of move on to, you know, some of the more positive things. So, let’s talk a little bit about NAMAC Global. You know, it’s your company, your platform, your playground, all of those sorts of things.

[00:15:18] Graham Stephen: But maybe let’s just start, a bit about NEMAC, you know? Why did you start it? Where did the name come from? You know, when people read it, what’s it meant to represent? So let’s go back to the beginning, and why you started the business, and why did you call it NIMAC?

[00:15:36] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, I started it in 2016, and the reason behind it was I was just seeing how fast the tech space was moving, and Xero had just hit… or not just, but Xero was doing quite a lot of work in South Africa at the time to try and obtain that market.

[00:15:53] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And I just found that the larger companies were moving too slowly. you know, they weren’t able to keep up with the change, and I saw the gap in the market, and the name, honestly, just… I was having a gin around the fire one night in the Free State, and, put numbers accounting together for cloud accounting, and that’s where NAMAC came from. So it’s not any sort of…

[00:16:16] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: powerful significance. It just basically came from cloud accounting. It just put the two words, you know, Nimbus accounting together.

[00:16:24] Graham Stephen: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:24] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Yeah, I started helping accounting firms transition, move to the cloud. Eventually, it turned into an accounting practice, which was never really the idea for it to be an accounting firm, and built this accounting firm just out of nowhere, and a year and a half or two years in, sold the practice, you know, sold that book, and then just carried on within the tech space.

[00:16:46] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. You know, I mean, I love the name, the background to the name, because I see so many entrepreneurs wanting to start a business, and they think they need to spend, like.

[00:16:54] Graham Stephen: you know, so much time on the name and the brand, and, like, engage consultants and, you know, come up with this perfect name, but the reality is, actually, you’re just going to get started, you know? And, you know, if your business really flies and succeeds, you can always rebrand later, but I think so many people…

[00:17:11] Graham Stephen: talking about doing the right stuff, right? You know, it’s focusing on what is the purpose of the business, first and foremost? What problem are you solving for business owners? You know, the name can kind of happen later, and the branding and all of that, and you’ve also had a few iterations of the name and what goes around that, but

[00:17:30] Graham Stephen: But let’s just talk a little bit about Nemac’s vision, you know? So what makes you different? What makes you different to any other accounting or accounting tech firm?

[00:17:41] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I’m always mindful to answer that, Graham, because the reality is, as humans, we all think we’re unique, right?

[00:17:46] Graham Stephen: Mmm.

[00:17:47] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I say it with our clients, you know, when we go and we do a manufacturing implementation, they always want to spend hours telling us what makes them different, but the reality is manufacturing is manufacturing.

[00:17:57] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, so I’m always mindful to answer that question in terms of what makes us unique. But, I think, you know, if we look about… look at digital transformation, what I always say is that we’ve been doing this way before it was cool.

[00:18:10] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, in 2010 and 11, I found myself running across Africa.

[00:18:16] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Helping with stage evolution implementations and writing standard operating procedures for businesses across, like, Mozambique, Zambia, Botswana. I was very fortunate to have worked for an asset management company at that stage, you know, and the assets were businesses they owned across Africa.

[00:18:31] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, we definitely, like, come with a wealth of experience. It’s not just in the last couple of years that it’s gone, like, oh, let’s transition from being an accountant to tech. You know, the transition happened way before Nomac even started. And then, you know, the same goes for my team. My team, a lot of them do have accounting degrees, but they actually never worked in practice. They got their accounting degrees, went straight into

[00:18:56] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: programming, qualified as devs, so they’ve got that accounting background to help them when it comes to landed costs and debit and credits, but we’ve always been tech. We haven’t had to transition.

[00:19:08] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Where a lot of the guys in our space are maybe accounting firms with a tech leg. You know, the accounting firms that have sort of used their article clerks, their juniors, to now start implementing these tech solutions, where our nature has always been tech.

[00:19:24] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: our native has been automation and digital transformation. We haven’t tried to change that at any point. You know, and I think, you see the same with the tech space. You know, the accounting softwares that came to market whose native was cloud, those are the ones that are seen, right? Like, the zeros of the world, where the accounting.

[00:19:42] Graham Stephen: Fair.

[00:19:42] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: native was never cloud. They’re the ones that are kind of battling to catch up, and I think you get.

[00:19:47] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:19:48] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Mac, the saying, you know, our native has always been digital transformation. Our native have always been cloud. We haven’t changed that along the way, and that obviously comes with a wealth of experience.

[00:19:59] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and I think… I think today, often that under… that experience, that deep experience is often kind of,

[00:20:06] Graham Stephen: I guess, underrated to an extent. You know, it’s all that sort of stuff that happened under the iceberg that people don’t see.

[00:20:13] Graham Stephen: And, you know, when that is embedded in how you do things, and going back to sport, you know, as a swimmer or triathlete, people don’t see

[00:20:22] Graham Stephen: you know, the sort of 2-hour stints at 4.30 in the morning in the cold pool. I can relate to that. I grew up in the era prior to indoor pools and heated… heated 26-degree pool. You know, you dived into the pool in 11 degrees water, and if you… if you didn’t like it, your coach gave you an extra 10 lengths at the end of the stint. So, but I mean, that sort of embedded in who you are is so important. And I think the other aspect you touch on is

[00:20:48] Graham Stephen: is people. You know, I know the people in your team is absolutely critical, and, you know, how they engage with clients, how they engage with each other. I know that plays an important part in terms of your leadership.

[00:21:03] Graham Stephen: philosophy. I mean, as you said earlier, you’ve got very high standards, so you can probably demand a lot from your people, but I guess, you know, they also, you know, transfer that onto their clients, you know, so if you’ve got high standards, then you transfer those on. But talk a little bit about the people in your team, how you think about that.

[00:21:21] Graham Stephen: And how… how they need to show up every day.

[00:21:24] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I’m absolutely in love with my team. Most of them have been with me for a number of years. Hasn’t always been smooth sailing, you know, and I’ve always been a hard audience, but we do believe in the Ubunta culture.

[00:21:38] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, I am because we are, and… and that as a team culture, but that also with our clients. You know, we’re only successful because… because our clients are trusting us.

[00:21:48] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: With their automations. So we really run on that philosophy. And also, you know, we… I want to say, like, we’re a family culture.

[00:22:00] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And, a lot, although a lot of that has sort of changed and restructured, you know, as we’ve gone international, but we really do support each other as a team. And, you know, I always, tell the story, one of the team members rode his car off one night.

[00:22:14] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And, it was 1AM in Gauteng, and literally, like, I got to the scene of the accident at 1AM, because I was called, and there were, 4 other people there, and all of them were NAMAC team members.

[00:22:30] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, helping solve this problem, you know, moving the car, and doing what we needed to. And that, to me, that moment was, to me, quite significant, because it, to me, it was a reflection of what has been built.

[00:22:42] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, in terms of the relationship. And we also work on a… you eat what you kill.

[00:22:48] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: sort of model in the business, and what’s beautiful to see is how the team members pass work amongst each other. You know, although it’s affecting their direct pocket, if they see that the other team members, you know, needs a bit more cash flow, or is struggling a little bit, like, there really is that culture of helping each other and passing work amongst themselves.

[00:23:07] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, it’s, that’s the one thing, like, I can really, you know, Nomac really gets right, is the culture that’s been built. And like I say, like, I couldn’t… I couldn’t be more in love with the team. They’re just absolutely incredible.

[00:23:20] Graham Stephen: Yeah, I mean, that analogy… it’s a competitive environment, but it’s… it’s competitive collaboration. I mean, I’ll use another swimming analogy. It’s a… it’s like swimming in a relay team, right? You know, you each have a role to play in that. You swim in the relay team, but you’re also swimming in the 100-meter finals against each other at the same time. But when you’re in the relay, you’re there to support each other, and if you… if you get asked to be the lead, or you get asked to be the finisher, or the number

[00:23:45] Graham Stephen: three swimmer, you take your space in that team. And I think that’s what teamwork’s about, right? It’s not about just everybody kumbaya, it’s about everybody really rallying together and really striving for the best as individuals and as a team.

[00:24:00] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: 100%.

[00:24:03] Graham Stephen: So can you talk a little bit about, and, you know, I don’t think, you know, our listeners, I want to point them out to your blog, but in one of your blogs, you talk about the sort of currency of calm, you know, and that’s about being able to be sort of calm in tough situations. And I think in our world.

[00:24:20] Graham Stephen: often calm is underrated, you know, whether you’re in finance or M&A or valuations. So what have you learned about leading through, sort of, uncertainty? And I guess over the last 10 years, there’s been a lot of uncertainty. You know, we’ve dealt with COVID, we’ve dealt with…

[00:24:35] Graham Stephen: You know, global meltdowns, global war, youth-changed countries,

[00:24:41] Graham Stephen: What have you learned as a leader through all that sort of uncertainty, Michelle?

[00:24:46] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, my poor team, because, like I’ve said before, I’m not an easy audience. So, you know, I think leading through uncertainty and stress and everything, like, I’ve often had a wealth of emotions that comes with that.

[00:25:00] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But, I think what works for us is we set… we set themes. So we set a theme for every quarter.

[00:25:08] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: every quarter we go, what is the theme for this quarter? Because the reality is that things change really quickly. So we’ve got our goals, you know, we all know what it is that we’re working towards for the year, we all know what it is we’re working towards, and what sort of the bigger picture is, and the five-year goal is. We’ve got that. But it’s really, I think, what drives the needle forward. What we’ve seen is really just going, what is the theme for this quarter?

[00:25:30] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, and what are we dealing with? Because uncertainty, like, things change so quickly, whether it’s political, whether it’s tech. I mean, if I think how quickly my own life changed in terms of the immigration, you know, looking at some of the team members and what they’ve been through personally, you know, things change really quickly. So if you’ve got that one theme for the quarter.

[00:25:49] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: then that generally, you know, that generally works really well for us. And that can be anything. You know, we’ve had themes where we’ve said this, this quarter, we’re focusing on Ubuntu.

[00:25:59] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, this quarter, we’re focusing on… we’ve had a theme for a quarter called Get Shut Done, you know?

[00:26:05] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:26:06] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: like, this quarter, we’re really just gonna be ticking… ticking the things off, and that… that generally works really well for us. It keeps it, I want to say, short and sweet, but long enough to actually make an impact.

[00:26:18] Graham Stephen: It’s a bit like that saying how you eat an elephant, one bite at a time, you know? It’s long enough that you can actually get stuff done, but it’s short enough to kind of, you know, I guess acknowledge that things do change, you know? I have to chuckle sometimes because, you know, when we do valuations, that part of that is

[00:26:36] Graham Stephen: trying to look into the future, you know, what’s going to happen 5 years from now? And the reality is, is that, you know, 5 years from now is anyone’s best guess. You know, the world can be in a very different place. It’s not to say you shouldn’t have those long-term plans, they are important, but particularly in startups and businesses that are growing and…

[00:26:56] Graham Stephen: It’s not like a big bank or setting a country’s budget, you know, those kinds of things are a little bit more stable, and they do require flexibility, and that sort of quarterly review is a great way, and quarterly theme is a great way to kind of chunk it up.

[00:27:12] Graham Stephen: Michelle, I think, you know, when we look at our audience that we’re talking to, and a lot of people listening in here would be business owners, and, you know, from our side, obviously, we focus on valuation, as I said, so, you know, trying to think about how is your business going to perform into the future.

[00:27:29] Graham Stephen: How… how do you think, sort of your approach can help business owners build more valuable businesses? How does that quarterly theme, how does that kind of dealing with uncertainty… what… one piece of advice would you give to a business owner to kind of

[00:27:45] Graham Stephen: build a more valuable business as I look forward.

[00:27:48] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I think, you know, the things with these things is that it’s always your own perspective and your own experience, right? So, what I really like about what you guys do is obviously the valuation side of things. I think one of the biggest mistakes I made when I started Nomac in 2016 is I never started it.

[00:28:05] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: With the aim to sell it. And I always say no to business owners when I deal with them. I say, are you building a business, or are you building a hobby?

[00:28:13] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And if you’re building a business, you know, get that… get that valuation done sooner than later, you know, which is obviously your playing field. Or even if it’s a hypothetical valuation, you know, get that done sooner than later. Get the right systems in place from day one, even if that software costs you a little bit more. And it’s not to say you are going to sell your business, it’s not to say you want to sell your business.

[00:28:36] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I just think that you make better strategic decisions. when you are building to sell, or when you are building to increase that valuation. So I really encourage business owners to work with guys like yourself on a regular basis. You know, don’t ask just a once-off the day you want to sell your business, because, you know, we’ve all been there, then it’s either too owner-operated, or the P&L is, you know, too mixed up with all sorts of other personal expenses, you know, which most

[00:29:04] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, how most South African businesses operate. So I think it’s really important from day one, even if it means paying extra for the right software, you know, like I said, working with you guys on a regular basis, but really to build that business to say, if I had to sell this business, what decisions would I be making differently today? Because that just helps you to make better strategic decisions.

[00:29:26] Graham Stephen: Yeah, sort of, as Stephen Covey said, begin with the end in mind, right? And just to bring it back to the example you used earlier with your triathlon, as you said, you weren’t intending to become world Ironman champion.

[00:29:39] Graham Stephen: But you did have a goal to, you know, maybe compete in a triathlon or an Ironman, and that kind of set the path for your training schedule and how you went about that.

[00:29:49] Graham Stephen: And I guess, even if you never ended up doing the Ironman, I’m thinking back, we’re now in October or November, as we’re recording this, you know, people who trained for the Cape Town Marathon, which was canceled a few weeks ago.

[00:30:02] Graham Stephen: And everyone’s, you know, they trained for this marathon, but the fact that the marathon was canceled, yes, everyone was sad and all of that, but, you know, those runners who were training for months and years to do the marathon, it wasn’t in vain. Yes, maybe they couldn’t run the marathon, but

[00:30:16] Graham Stephen: they’re healthier, they’re fitter, and who knows, next year they can do the London Marathon, or the Boston Marathon, or whatever, so that preparation never goes in vain, but having that goal…

[00:30:26] Graham Stephen: is absolutely so important. And then breaking it up into those sort of, like, quarterly or yearly, sort of, let’s call it themes, challenges to get you there is really, really important too.

[00:30:40] Graham Stephen: I want to move on to some of your success stories. So, you’ve worked with a lot of clients, and you have to mention them by name, but could you maybe share a case study or a story where NAMAC has really, kind of, genuinely worked with a business and shifted that business’s perspective or performance over a period of time, Michelle?

[00:30:59] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: We’ve got a number of businesses, Graham, like, it’s difficult to pinpoint them, but we’ve got a number of businesses that we’ve worked with for a number of years that we actually see their turnover not just increasing, you know, by a percentage, but literally, like, doubling.

[00:31:13] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: year on year on year. And these are guys that work with us on a monthly basis, and it’s just because we’re constantly automating, we’re constantly improving. We’re constantly looking at better ways for them to get their reporting out. You know, I think I mentioned in one of our previous chats, for one of the agricultural farms that we work with, commercial farms in Africa, we’ve integrated their way bridge to their stock system. You know, so it’s guys that are constantly looking for those

[00:31:38] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: improvements, like I say, to move the needle forward. And it’s just incredible to see, you know, how their teams are growing, how their turnover is increasing, how they’re getting more market share, because they’re able to better negotiate with their suppliers on costs, on terms. And it’s just, you know, those are the clients that really sort of make our hearts tick.

[00:31:59] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Because those are the ones that we’ve got a… we’ve got a journey and a story to share with, and, you know, and they’ll… they’ll sing high praises of the softwares that we have implemented for them, and it’s just because of the reporting of what they’re getting out of it. You know, it’s not about that 5 minutes a day that they’re saving. I always say micro equals macro.

[00:32:16] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, and often customers don’t want to go on this journey because you know, I’m okay with Excel, or I’m doing okay with what I’ve got at the moment, but they don’t realize, at the end of the day, it’s that micro that equals macro that’s allowing these customers that we’ve worked with to actually double their turnover year on year.

[00:32:34] Graham Stephen: Yeah. I mean, there’s so many lessons in that that we could kind of draw on. Earlier on, you spoke about, you know, as a founder, one of the big challenges and the burnout discussion, when you’re doing too much of the stuff that you actually shouldn’t be doing, it detracts you from

[00:32:48] Graham Stephen: you know, focusing on the strategic and the important stuff. And I guess that’s one of the things that you do, is you take care of the automation, so all the heavy lifting stuff that often takes a lot of time.

[00:32:57] Graham Stephen: it’s not just the time aspect, but it’s that sort of constant content switching between strategy and ops, and putting a report together which really impacts on founders. So I guess, you know, you help take care of the heavy lifting, so that the owners can focus on what really matters more.

[00:33:15] Graham Stephen: And those are the things that move the dial. So it’s not automation for automation’s sake, it’s automation to enable

[00:33:21] Graham Stephen: The right headspace for the founders, but also, importantly, to have the right information that they can make better strategic decisions, right?

[00:33:29] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Hmm, 100%.

[00:33:31] Graham Stephen: Yeah. Michelle. I, you know, this chat’s just been great so far. What we do is, you know, before I give you a chance to say, you know, a last few words, we always have what we call a rapid-fire round. It’s just a bunch of, sort of, fun questions that we have with our guests, just to get to know a little bit more about you.

[00:33:49] Graham Stephen: So, you know, just short questions, first thing that comes to mind. So let’s talk about your morning routine. What does that look like? You remember the 5 a.m. Club? Describe, tell us what that looks like.

[00:34:03] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, I often wake up at 3.30. Not even joking.

[00:34:11] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And it’s just because it’s so quiet. So quiet, it’s very productive. So, I’ve actually moved away from training first thing in the mornings, and it’s just because, I’ll do a couple of push-ups and, you know, do a couple of squats while the kettle is boiling, just to kind of get the blood moving, but it’s just because work-wise, I find myself extremely productive in that time of the morning.

[00:34:34] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, I mean, I’m a woman of faith, so I always start with some prayer, and then, as soon as I can, you know, just take the laptop out and just start getting the things done that move the needle forward. So those morning sessions, they’re like, what can I do to move the needle forward? And then my training session would normally come around lunchtime or late afternoon, just to kind of build that energy for the next

[00:34:56] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: The next stage of the day.

[00:34:59] Graham Stephen: I love that, you know. Focus on when you get your best work done. I mean, I can relate to that. I actually am a morning person.

[00:35:07] Graham Stephen: And… and before, I had kids and that, and had school runs and drop-offs and all of that sort of stuff, you know, I would often be in the office at 6.30, and by the time everyone else rocked up at 9 o’clock, I’d done all my important work for the day, you know, so…

[00:35:20] Graham Stephen: But that doesn’t work for everybody, you know, I guess you’ve got to find the routine that works for you.

[00:35:26] Graham Stephen: So that you can get your focus work done, you know, at the right time, and when you’re in the best space to do that. And I can also relate to that, sort of.

[00:35:35] Graham Stephen: take a break at midday, a bit like you, I’ve got it scheduled in my diary between, sort of, 12 and 1 every day as to… fortunately, I’ve got a gym over the road from me. I go and do 60, 80 lengths in the pool, and it’s just a great reset. But I think the point is, you know, find a routine that works for you. You don’t have to be the 5am club. Some people like to sleep till 9 and work till midnight, you know, so that’s… that’s a great perspective.

[00:35:57] Graham Stephen: Let’s talk about reading. I don’t know if you have much time for reading, but maybe one book that’s changed your thinking or left an impression on you.

[00:36:06] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Oh, so many, so many. So I love to read. The one book I really like, and I actually like most of his books, is, 10X is Easier Than 2X.

[00:36:16] Graham Stephen: Hmm.

[00:36:17] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So I found that to be a really good book, and that’s also changed the way I operate within the business quite a lot. You know, it’s easy to have 2X growth, because you’ve just got to… or easy in the sense that you just need to work harder, you just need to put in more hours.

[00:36:31] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But the minute you start thinking 10X growth, that’s when you start going, like, okay, when can I really think strategically? You know, and that’s where the 3.30 a.m. comes from.

[00:36:41] Graham Stephen: Absolutely, and I think, you know, we sort of talk about it, it’s just as easy to catch a whale as it is to catch a guppy, you know? It’s, I mean, figuratively, is… it’s just a little bit more effort, but then you get much better rewards, or much more efficient than that, and I think people make that mistake, you know, that, you know, they think too small.

[00:37:00] Graham Stephen: But they then just are like a hamster and a treadmill moving at, like. you know, on the same spot. Think bigger, and think strategically, and you can really move the dial.

[00:37:11] Graham Stephen: What’s the biggest misconception that you think people have about success, Michelle?

[00:37:20] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Sure. It also feels like a loaded, loaded question.

[00:37:25] Graham Stephen: They’re all loaded questions, don’t worry.

[00:37:28] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I think, you know, what really worries me, Graham, if I’m honest, and this is maybe a blog post, what really worries me is the media at the moment around this. You know, like you mentioned earlier, the meme, you know, somebody sitting with their laptop on the beach, and they’re working two hours a day, and I get it, and I get it that there are all these things that you can do, and I’m not saying, like, I’m not opening my mind to other things.

[00:37:51] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: But…

[00:37:51] Graham Stephen: Yeah.

[00:37:52] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, success is… it’s hard work. It’s… it’s hard work. There’s… there’s no ways you’re gonna get around… you’re gonna get around hard work.

[00:38:01] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And, you know, I always say when I left corporate, I… I spent… I spent, quite a while running away from routine, you know, and running away from structure. And then I very humbly realized that, like, order and structure wins the day, you know? Order and structure, consistency, those things win the day. And I think,

[00:38:21] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, I think a lot of people think that success comes easy, and people give up too quickly. Saying to somebody that, hey, you know, Nomac is nearly 10 years, next year will be a decade, and I finally understand the saying to, you know, 10 years to an overnight success.

[00:38:36] Graham Stephen: Yeah, and I think… I think that’s so true, you know, I mean, the hard work is part of the success, you know? I think, as you say, these glamorized notions of, like, not working and, I don’t know, doing what… I mean, if you’re not working, what are you doing, you know? So working is… it’s about the effort, but it’s also the contribution you’re making to society, it’s about purpose.

[00:38:54] Graham Stephen: It’s all those things, you know, and it sounds like a cliche, you know, the journey is important as the end goal, and success is about that constant showing up and, giving your life and other people’s lives meaning as you go… as you go about that.

[00:39:09] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Hmm.

[00:39:10] Graham Stephen: Okay, now’s a creative one, maybe not so loaded. If Namek was an animal, what animal would it be?

[00:39:17] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: That’s difficult, because what comes to mind immediately would be dolphin, but that’s just because I love the water, and it’s got nothing to do with…

[00:39:24] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, with Namek as such. Yeah, I probably need to give that thought, Graham, but it’s a good question. It’s probably going to be… I’m going to.

[00:39:31] Graham Stephen: A dolphin will do. Okay, two more questions. If you could put one sentence on a billboard for every entrepreneur to read, what would it be?

[00:39:44] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Probably be work harder. And I know everybody says work smarter, not harder, so I’m not saying don’t work smart. I’m just saying that…

[00:39:53] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: you know, tech is giving us a lot of free time at the moment. See it all the time, you know, business owners are spending more time outdoors and everything, and that’s great, but if you could… if you could still put in the effort that you had to put in before tech was there, and utilize the tech.

[00:40:12] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You’re gonna be flying. like, you’re gonna absolutely be flying. I think what you could achieve, you completely would underestimate, then, what you could achieve in the, you know, the next 12 months. So…

[00:40:22] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: I think, I know that’s not one sentence, but it would really be, like, just… just work harder, keep putting in the grids while working smarter. And I think, you know, that ultimately that’s where your success is gonna sit.

[00:40:34] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Where a lot of times.

[00:40:35] Graham Stephen: So you just take…

[00:40:36] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Sitting back.

[00:40:36] Graham Stephen: technology as a multiplayer rather than as a way just to become more lazy.

[00:40:40] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: 100% well said.

[00:40:42] Graham Stephen: Cool. And the last question, your favorite quote or sort of mantra right now?

[00:40:51] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Gosh I don’t think there’s one speaking to me at the moment, other than Ubuntu. That’s… that’s quite a thing for, you know, for myself and the team at the moment, and I think it’s… it’s probably, the immigration that triggered that with me.

[00:41:09] Graham Stephen: But definitely…

[00:41:11] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: definitely Ubuntu. Like, don’t, you know, don’t forget where you’ve come from, and, you know, you are here because of your team, because of your clients, because of the people that have supported you along the way.

[00:41:22] Graham Stephen: Yeah. And for our non-South African listeners, I mean, if you can just expand on that a little bit more, you know, so Ubuntu is a… it’s a Zulu word, right? So, you know, what does that mean to you?

[00:41:35] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Well, the short of it is I am, because we are, you know what we said, but I think what it means to me is that a number of things, you know, having nearly been at this for a decade, it’s definitely… I mean, I’ve had family and friends that have taken my nose over the years, you know? No to the bribe slash barbecue, you know, no to the birthday celebration, no to the weekend trip, no to the dinner.

[00:41:59] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: just because I’ve been building. You know, so it’s also just if we say, I am because we are, you know, it’s also because of the friends and family that have

[00:42:08] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: made the sacrifices with you, and have been incredibly patient with it. And then, like I mentioned earlier, you know, the team that passes work

[00:42:16] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: workaround, because they know it’s got a direct impact on their pockets, you know, and how they end up helping each other. And, you know, I think it also goes very closely with that saying that everybody knows it takes a village.

[00:42:29] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: You know, like I said, if our clients didn’t trust us, like, we wouldn’t be where we were either, right? And I think when it comes to automations, change management is always difficult.

[00:42:39] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So, you do tend to upset people in the early stages of a new transition, but, you know, just the fact that they trust us to get over that transition. So, really, like, you know, I wouldn’t be where I am, you know, without community, and the business wouldn’t be where it is without community and clients as well.

[00:42:59] Graham Stephen: Fantastic. Michelle, I mean, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. It’s been equal parts, you know, strategy, soul, sanity, hard work, and just appreciate you, joining, which is 2 hours earlier for you than what it is for me, but, you know, thank you. Is there anything you want to kind of leave with the listeners in closing before we wrap up?

[00:43:19] Graham Stephen: like I said, I think just use… use technology as a multiplier. Your… your words, Graham, but I think well… well said, I’m gonna steal that.

[00:43:28] Graham Stephen: Fantastic, Michelle. Thank you so much. You know, it’s about, you know, we are to connect with entrepreneurs, to share perspectives, to share stories, and… and thank you for sharing, you know. So, to our listeners, if you…

[00:43:39] Graham Stephen: Building a business, you’re burning out, you’re trying to juggle and balance out, take a leaf from Michelle’s book, you know, pause, reflect, rebuild, find out the routine and that that works for you.

[00:43:50] Graham Stephen: Michelle, how can our listeners get hold of you if they want to connect outside of the show?

[00:43:57] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: So the easiest would probably be our website, so it’s just www.nemak.global, and then, like I said, I do have my blog, Confessions of a Quiet Storm. I do need to up my game there, writes a little bit more on that.

[00:44:10] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: And then, I mean, anybody can always reach out to me on email as well, it’s just michelle at namak.co.au.

[00:44:18] Graham Stephen: Michelle, thank you, and yeah, for those of you listening, till next time, stay curious, stay calm, and keep building value that lasts.

[00:44:26] Michelle Jansa-van Rensburg: Thanks, Graham.

[00:44:30] Graham Stephen: Gosh, let me just…

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